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Old 10-22-2014, 10:29 PM   #21
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Great thread, wish this was around a couple years ago for my newb *** to read
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Old 10-23-2014, 10:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I'd say that's a reasonable assertion, though of course the MS3Pro, not being a PnP ECU, targets a somewhat different audience.

If you have a '90-'00 car with the original engine, then the DIYPnP or MSPnP2 are really all you need. The only reason* I'd upgrade to an MS3Pro for these cars would be if you are running an '01+ engine, so you can control the VVT natively.
I'm not a fan of PNPs in the first place, so the PNP on my own car wouldn't have been something i would have done, personally.

Car in question is a 95 with a 99-00 head, but running with the old CAS and ****, because 95 DIYPNP.

I find this annoying, but not sure if it's annoying enough to pony up for an MS3Pro at the moment. Annoying to assembly my own MS3X if it was a step up? Yeah. Maybe.

But it's not, so nope. Bummer.
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Old 10-23-2014, 10:58 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Car in question is a 95 with a 99-00 head, but running with the old CAS and ****, because 95 DIYPNP.

I find this annoying, but not sure if it's annoying enough to pony up for an MS3Pro at the moment.
Since you don't have VVT, either an MS2 or MS3-based ECU will work fine for you, and allow you to skip the old CAS and run the engine's native crank and cam sensors. This would include the DIYPnP, which is based on the MS2 CPU (via the MicroSquirt Module).

Translation: assuming you already own a DIYPnP, you don't need to use the CAS. Just fix your ****.
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Old 10-23-2014, 11:11 AM   #24
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Well yes.

The point was getting to build a new harness from scratch and not be limited to the DIYPNP connector at the ECU.

The easy button is just changing the what.... 2? 3? wires to run the native 99-00 trigger shiz. But then i still have a PNP running on a 20 year old molested harness.

Either way, suppose i should start sourcing parts and go from there. I appreciate the clarification. Props given!
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Old 10-23-2014, 11:21 AM   #25
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there's no limitation with the diypnp connector, it's acutally easier to populate/build/change compared to the db37 style.

the only differnce betweena 91-93, 94-95, 96-97, and 99-00 is how you run the jumper wires inside the case to the harness. All are built on the same 76 pin connector.

if you want to run a 99-00 head and remove the CAS, the changes would external to the MS, and then just a software parameter change. No internal mods to the MS would have to be made.
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
if you want to run a 99-00 head and remove the CAS, the changes would external to the MS, and then just a software parameter change. No internal mods to the MS would have to be made.
^ This.

All you need to do is go under the hood and move the wires that presently hit the CAS to go to the crank and cam sensors instead. You'll split the power and ground to both sensors, run the white wire to the crank sensor, and the yellow wire to the cam sensor.

Then just fire up TunerStudio and tell the MS that it's now connected to a '99-00 Miata instead of a 4G63 Mitsu. You'll have to recalibrate the timing offset (can't remember what the MS2 calls this parameter) but aside from that no MS changes needed.

Now go forth and fix thy ****.
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:07 PM   #27
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Neato! So basically... it'll take more time to get the crank trigger actually installed than it will to actually do the wiring and changes in settings.

I <3 this bar.
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
If you have a '90-'00 car with the original engine, then the DIYPnP or MSPnP2 are really all you need. The only reason* I'd upgrade to an MS3Pro for these cars would be if you are running an '01+ engine, so you can control the VVT natively.

If you have a whole '01-'05, car, then I'd recommend the MSPnP Pro, which is an MS3Pro in plug-n-play form.
I thought MS3x could control VVT natively?
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:27 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
So basically... it'll take more time to get the crank trigger actually installed than it will to actually do the wiring and changes in settings.
Assuming that you suck at installing crank triggers, yes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix View Post
I thought MS3x could control VVT natively?
It can.

In the quote above, I am recommending the MS3Pro or MSPnP Pro (which are also MS3 based) as opposed to the MS2-based DIYPnP or MSPnP2, as those units cannot control VVT.

If you wish to do all of your own wiring and harness-building, and aren't offended by having an ECU that consists of a modern CPU module plugged into a badly-designed 15 year old mainboard with yet a third board hanging off the side to control most (but not all) of the I/O, and don't mind dealing with unreliable and hard-to-tune crank/cam trigger circuits, and prefer DB-37 connectors over something robust, and are a cheapskate, then by all means use the MS3X as opposed to the MS3Pro or MSPnP Pro.

The MS3X uses the same core CPU and runs the same software as the MS3Pro and MSPnP Pro, it's merely that the physical implementation of the MS3X sucks so badly that you'd think they deliberately designed it to be a piece of ****, as opposed to the truth which is merely that Bruce Bowling and Al Grippo are lazy, apathetic, paranoid ******** who prefer retaining backwards-compatibility with something that sucked when it was new and very few people actually care about anymore, as opposed to breaking free from the shackles of the past and designing a modern ECU properly from the ground up.
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:35 PM   #30
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I now feel inadequate with MS3x, yet it's still far above me that I think in my case, the end user is more outdated and shitty than the unit itself. I guess I'll carry on.
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Old 10-27-2014, 10:46 AM   #31
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An alternative for the NA and the NB1 would be the WestfieldMX5 board for the MS3PRO Module

MS3-Pro Module - An EMS on a circuit board, for building your own systems

MS3 Pro pcb | Frank's Westfield MX5 MS3 Pro pcb |

Some DIY required
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Old 10-29-2014, 12:55 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
I'm not a fan of PNPs in the first place, so the PNP on my own car wouldn't have been something i would have done, personally.

Car in question is a 95 with a 99-00 head, but running with the old CAS and ****, because 95 DIYPNP.

I find this annoying, but not sure if it's annoying enough to pony up for an MS3Pro at the moment. Annoying to assembly my own MS3X if it was a step up? Yeah. Maybe.

But it's not, so nope. Bummer.
The MS3 is a step up in processing power and feature set compared to the DIYPNP. The build it yourself version still uses the V3.0 / V3.57 board at present, but has a lot of extra I/O put on the MS3X card so the mods are less of a hack job than on earlier boards.

Trivia: The MS3-Pro was more or less the original MS3 design plan. The MS3 V3.0 / V3.57 option was put together as (1) a proof of concept that would allow us to test things out, and (2) because when the MS3 proposal came out, a lot of people wanted an upgrade path for the V3.0s.

Last edited by Matt Cramer; 10-30-2014 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:19 AM   #33
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So what's the functional difference between the MS2 and MSPnP2? Former requires harness fab?
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:25 AM   #34
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the MSPNP2 runs on MS2--so there's no functional difference.
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:26 AM   #35
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Quote:
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So what's the functional difference between the MS2 and MSPnP2? Former requires harness fab?
You did read the very first post of this thread right?
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:31 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahurd View Post
You did read the very first post of this thread right?
I did, and it didn't indicate a functional difference between the MS2, DIYPnP, and MSPnP2. Yet seemed to indicate that MSPnP2>DIYPnP>MS2, without giving specific reasons, other than DIY needs, well, DIY.
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Old 02-27-2015, 10:17 AM   #37
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MS2 is a CPU/software.

anything running MS2 (MSPNP2, DIYPNP, MS2 v3.0) can all be identical function wise.

MSPNP2 makes it easy--it's plug and play and turn key.
DIYPNP require assembly and still PNP once complete.
MS2 CPU on a v3.0 or v3.57 PCB requires assembly, harness, and in most cases added external circuits/modifications for basic functions of the above two.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:37 AM   #38
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Another thing that could use an update - we have now introduced MSPNP Pro units for '90-'93 and '94-'95 applications. '99-'00 is up next, and if there's enough interest, we could make a '96-'97.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:43 AM   #39
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Will there ever be a diymspnp pro?
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Old 02-27-2015, 12:48 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Will there ever be a diymspnp pro?
It's called: ask Frank to make more connector boards.
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