Icedawg

So I bought a an MSN3 PnP for a 2001 Miata, and a PC to run the software.
I have watched the videos linked in this sub forum, and gone to HPTuning to watch more videos.
Then I opened up the software and I have just kinda froze.
I really have no clue how to get myself started on learning how to use the software. It seems like there are too many gaps.
The vid's give me info, and pieces of the puzzle, but I feel like I have huge gaps, and i can't sort out how to take my first baby steps in order to just get going.

It will be a while before the MSN goes in the car, since it is -26 C outside. So I was just planning to play with the software. Yet I still feel stuck, frozen if you will.

Any suggestions on noob things to fool around with?

joe morreale

I wouldn't play with the base tune loaded, if the car is stock. Wait till the car's running and take a bunch of logs. After looking at logs, you can think about changes and see the effects.

Erat

iTrader: (5)

It came with a tune? Save the tune somewhere safe first.
I wouldn't mess with anything. Unless you have to set required fuel.

​​​Find out how to datalog. I have mine set to a hotkey so I don't have to fiddle with it while driving. Tuning idle will be the first step, but for stock it should be pretty dead on if it came with a tune.
VEAL will take care of most things, but you're going to want to lock your idle cells.

irodd

iTrader: (4)

I would start from the MS3pro manual

rwyatt365

You didn't say specifically whether this was for a stock 2001, or not. In any event, save the base tune first - and keep it tucked away for safe-keeping.

Then read, read and read some more. Figure out where stuff is (and how to find it if you don't know), there are tables and setting windows EVERYWHERE. Get comfortable navigating the structure. Get a firm understanding of what the major (and "minor") tables are doing and how they inter-relate. Know which things you should leave alone, which things you should "zero out" and which things need immediate attention. Know how to start a datalog and understand what you're looking at in a log. You can do all of this without actually connecting TS to your ECU.

If you can get to the point where you think you have a marginal understanding of how to navigate TS, and what things do, you're ready for the first baby-steps.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

Spend $50 and watch all the MS videos that Evan has. https://evansperformanceacademy.vhx.tv/

Icedawg

Thanks, useful advice. But you do not say what to read. And that is really my problem. The MS3 Manual? Some book?
I've tried reading posts, but they are so scattered in location and content, and often use so many abbreviations I can't even get started.

Thanks to irodd for the MS3 Manual post, I was looking at the PNP pages and not finding anything as comprehensive as that. That is a good place to start.
And thanks for the advice on Evan's school, Shuiend, that could prove useful. Although I am more of a book guy than a video guy. (That would be yes boomer, to some of you!)

In answer to the car type question, it will be evolving. Stock 2001 street car right now, later will add injectors and a turbo with 2.5 inch downpipe, and take it wheel to wheel racing.
Thought I would play with the MS3 in stock form, then add injectors and do it again, then add turbo and do it again, as a learning experience. But maybe I will skip the intermediate step if it involves too much dyno time.

joe morreale

Don't skip the intermediate step. It will be where you can safely "play" with your tune. Once you have boost things can go badly real quick. Use virtual dyno along with your logs to tune the car NA. Autotune it after turbo goes on, after making required changes. That will get you 90% there. Then after getting all the bugs out you can think about spending money on dyno time, if you still want to.

In tuner studio look at all the drop down menus. Read what they are for. Use the help button for some explanation. Read in this forum. Maximum boost I think is the name of the book I have that will help explain some things. I've had my turbo for a few years and I'm totally mystified about some of the functions of tuner studio, so I don't mess with them. Use the knowledgeable people here for help, when necessary, but don't expect to be spoon fed.

rwyatt365

Yeah, knowing what to look for and where to find it is 80% of the battle. The information is "there", but sorting the wheat from the chaff can be daunting. What have I done? Go to google and search using "<stuff I want to look for> site:www.miataturbo.net" and then spend an hour sorting through 10,000 threads, trying to figure out which one(s) have useful, relevant information. My methodology there is to go to the threads with the most responses first. Those are the ones that have drawn attention, and (might) hold useful information. Then use those threads as a springboard to find more targeted information - either here, or on the msextra.com forum. My operating theory is; miataturbo = Miata-specific, msextra = Megasquirt-general.

When it comes to abbreviations...it comes with the territory. No one wants to write "closed loop initial value table" more than one time; CL IV is the shortcut. Time and use will make you a veteran.

Starting from scratch, as you are, is the best way to jump in. Initially (as others have said) VE Analyzer Live - "VEAL" will be your friend starting from a known-good base map. One question, though - Do you (or will you) have a Wide Band O2 sensor installed? If not, then "tuning" will be a challenge on the stock car using the Narrow Band sensor.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

I have read just about every book out there on engine tuning and such. Evan's videos are far better then any book. At the end of all his MS training videos, he actually has 2 sets of live dyno training videos for a supercharged miata and a turbo miata. He goes through absolutely everything he does on the dyno to tune a car. His videos have been the absolute best training I have actually seen out on the market.

Silver NB

iTrader: (1)

I’m going to have to subscribe for a month and watch these.

Icedawg

OK, good to know. Thanks for the thoughtful advice.

Icedawg

Well there is an example of my problem! I tried to sort out what VEAL stood for, and no matter how I phrased the question to Google I got "cow"!! When I tired on this forum I got VEAL, over and over again. Could not figure it out.

I have bought a wide band, though I was planning on using it in my Spec Miata as I play the fuel pressure game. I was planning it would eventually go in the 2001 street car as I start to tune it though, but not at the very beginning while it is stock.
Maybe I will take the one I have out of the ice racer and put it in the Spec Miata. Can't use those both in the same season!

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

You need a wideband to tune. It is 100% required.

Icedawg

Yeah, understood. I just don't plan to put it in until I am tuning. And I have a lot of knowledge I need to build up before then.

Icedawg

Well, I found a book on Amazon, bought it, read it cover to cover, and it was great help.
After the book, watching the videos I can find on line, or the ones in the sticky above, and reading the comments and discussions all make some sense!
I can now appreciate the advice an discussions, with a good basic foundation.
Have yet to do the video training mentioned in this thread, but at least I know enough to get started.
The book was written by Greg Banish, "Designing and Tuning High Performance Fuel Injection Systems", published by CarTech 2009, SA Design series.
There were quite a few to choose from, but this one had decent reivews, and it certainly was a great basic introduction. I enjoyed the quote from Stephen Hawking "I was told every equation would cut book sales in half again", so Banish must have lost a fair number of sales, though the equations are simple.

Of course, my first attempts at refining the VE have given a bit of a set of what seem to be odd results, but at least I have ways to understand it now..
Bumpy VE table

ryansmoneypit

iTrader: (6)

Boomer, your search skills need work. Next time give the google more information, like. "MS3 VEAL".

IT got me directly to the answer.

Icedawg

Well, that's why I wanted a book!
At least my search skills were up to finding a decent book, anyhow.
And it really has helped.