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Old 04-19-2009, 04:51 AM   #1
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Default Too rich, why ?

Hi,

This is freakin me out. I have 1.6l with greddy turbo, 305cc, diy intercooler, fuelab afpr (no stock regulator, just fuelab), plx wideband, 255l/h walbro and megasquirt pnp. I have Two problems which are most likely related to the same issue:

-I build the combination listed above in winter and just scaled the previous .msq to the new injectors. I was going to go to dyno shop with that combination but I thought I would do the vehicle inspection (Finnish inspection) first. It idled very rich (12,13) and when I carefully pressed gas pedal, it went rich right away. I thought the problem was that new fuelab or the ms map. It was weird because the intercooler would make afr leaner and fuelab was showing 2,5bar base pressure. I made it leaner in ms and calculated injectors again. It wasn't working :( I made emission test and noticed that the car doesn't burn fuel correctly (raw fuel to exhaust). Ok, i'm not ms expert but duh.

Vehicle inspection wasn't going very well and I had to remove intercooler (finnish stupid regulations). I removed all upgraded items (including injectors, now stock) and went to basic greddy kit with the exception of walbro, which I left.

I reloaded earlier dynoed map (attached file) which was working very well before I started to upgrade things. But WTF, It was still rich, little better than it was with upgraded items. I also tried msnpnp base map, but it didn't work either. I know that huge walbro can override the stock regulator but wouldn't it go leaner then? . I can drive very carefully and be in traffic but when I press the gas pedal it goes very rich, I can't even go to boost

So I don't think it's ms related anymore. Is it walbro or what ?
Attached Files
File Type: msq 111.7kw stock greddy kit.msq (35.0 KB, 78 views)
File Type: xls no accel enrichment no ego.xls (864.9 KB, 64 views)

Last edited by moregore; 04-20-2009 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:46 AM   #2
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try changing your req_fuel value to 8.7 to reflect you change in injector size, then go from there.
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:11 AM   #3
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I'm not too clued up on the megasquirt, but a 255 fuel pump, 305cc injectors, AFPR and the megasquirt seems like overkill to me.
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:06 AM   #4
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So you did 4 things to add fuel and you wonder why you're running rich? Or did this just start happening after it was fine for months?
Quote:
intercooler would make afr leaner
BS how exactly?

The 255 may overload the FPR and that will make it even richter not leaner. I suggest you remove all BS items that you dont need, and get it running. Then add one thing at a time.
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Old 04-19-2009, 11:31 AM   #5
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I removed all the bs items as I said and moved to basic greddy kit with exception of that walbro. I had steady map for that basic greddy setup and it worked very well last summer but not now. I want to run that setup now because of inspection. Then I'll add one thing at a time and when everything is installed again, i'll go to spend some good time in dyno.

Quote:
So you did 4 things to add fuel and you wonder why you're running rich? Or did this just start happening after it was fine for months?

Quote:
intercooler would make afr leaner

BS how exactly?

The 255 may overload the FPR and that will make it even richter not leaner. I suggest you remove all BS items that you dont need, and get it running. Then add one thing at a time.
As I'm aware, the ic makes air colder and when you don't add fuel to compete (sry, I don't know better word) to growed air mass, it should be running leaner...

I have return line and stock regulator is located there. When it gives up, Wouldn't it make it leaner when that regulator can't keep steady pressure ?

Quote:
I'm not too clued up on the megasquirt, but a 255 fuel pump, 305cc injectors, AFPR and the megasquirt seems like overkill to me.
255 fuel pump is overkill yes, 305cc, afpr and megasquirt, why ? Actually I would drop afpr out and buy bigger injectors, but I think I can make this work for now. I can't just print money when your wallet is empty like US does

Last edited by moregore; 04-19-2009 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 04-19-2009, 12:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moregore View Post
As I'm aware, the ic makes air colder
colder air is denser.
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Old 04-19-2009, 12:32 PM   #7
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I don't really get what you're saying.
Are you actually doing any tuning? You can't expect fueling to be perfect if you are not tuning the ve table.
Are you not running EGO? AE? Why the hell not? (from the file name, I haven't opened the files).
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Old 04-19-2009, 12:55 PM   #8
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You're probably running too rich because your VE table values are too high.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:29 PM   #9
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VE Fuel Table looks highly untuned. i suggest tuning. that usually helps.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:32 PM   #10
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Forget about my earlier posts. This is summary:

-Stock greddy kit with already tuned map. Worked very well last summer.

-Now stock greddy kit with already tuned map + walbro 255l/h fuel pump. It's rich even on idle and too rich when accelerating

Nothing else was changed. I have japanese model with return line, so if stock regulator can't keep fuel pressure, the fuel system goes leaner.

Edit. Braineacks's post is what's confusing me. As I load .msq maps to ms, Don't I have to do any else than FILE - OPEN - Select file, double click it and press yes to burn the map for the ms ? Because the map which is attached is the one which was working last summer very very well.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:34 PM   #11
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a 255 increases the fuel pressure in the line, therefore it's more rich. then end. lean out your map to compensate.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:41 PM   #12
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Ok, so it does increases it that much. I'll lean it out. Thanks for answering. I hope it helps
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
VE Fuel Table looks highly untuned. i suggest tuning. that usually helps.

you're a smart ******. Do you believe it's logical to squirt more fuel at 0psi than 8psi? Look at your 4000rpm column. You're squirting more fuel at 75kpa than 128kpa. You're AFR target table is **** too. Do you really expect the car to run worth a **** with a fuel table like that or do you expect someone on the internet to tune it for you?

Maybe its time to consider a powercard and yo-yo's because you must put forth an effort to gain knowledge, rather than continue to fail at life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by moregore View Post
Ok, so it does increases it that much. I'll lean it out. Thanks for answering. I hope it helps
smooth the values out so there's a somewhat linear progression between load and rpm.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:59 PM   #14
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As I said earlier, I'm not ms expert, just amateur, maybe not even that. You can bash me as much as you want. I really hope that's the file which was done by qualified tuner. I went right through the dyno shop last summer after I installed msnpnp, it was tuned and then it ran perfect. I remember him saying that the vortech fpr rises (peaks) the pressure that much at those rpm's that he did lean that point.

I'm going to gain knowledge this summer, but please agree that someone with ms can just take the car to the qualified tuner who knows what to do and I can just do driving.

Last edited by moregore; 04-19-2009 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moregore View Post
I'm going to gain knowledge this summer, but please agree that someone with ms can just take the car to the qualified tuner who knows what to do and I can just to driving.
Yeah, you can take a programmable ECU to someone, and they can program it.


But will it be done "correctly" ? Hope so.


People **** up ALL THE TIME
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Old 04-19-2009, 03:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gompers View Post
Yeah, you can take a programmable ECU to someone, and they can program it.


But will it be done "correctly" ? Hope so.


People **** up ALL THE TIME
I think the good shop which is specialised to programmable ecus like megasquirt, hestec, vipec, autech, tatech etc. and owns good dyno can do better job than the most of us. Just my opinion...
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moregore View Post
I think the good shop which is specialised to programmable ecus like megasquirt, hestec, vipec, autech, tatech etc. and owns good dyno can do better job than the most of us. Just my opinion...
not really when it comes to the ve table, datalog at let mlv do it's thing
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Old 04-19-2009, 11:07 PM   #18
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I want to help you, I just have a serious attitude problem. Read the megamanual and mspnp manual...they will tell you a lot about tuning. Several people here seem to think my dyno thread is educational because I went from knowing nothing about doing this stuff to a well-tuned car.

If you have aim, feel free to send me a message at any time and I'll help however I can.

After my effort and trial by fire, I would never pay anyone to tune my car. Once you have the appropriate equipment, educate yourself, read the manuals, then ask questions. If someone yaps at you on the internet...its the internet, who cares?
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:41 AM   #19
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I appreciate that. Sorry for asking stupid questions Maybe I resist myself and learn to tune it myself, but I bet it will take some time at least I have good equipment..
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Old 04-20-2009, 03:33 AM   #20
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awwww hustler, you wittle cutey ~<3

helping people feels good doesnt it ^_^
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