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Old 11-04-2009, 02:38 AM   #1
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Default Troubleshooting my inline 2 miata

My first MS thread! As none of you know, Wayne Curr built me a MS1 recently, and I've been spending the last few days installing it. Actually I spent day one installing it; I had a pnp harness already done, and with the IAT sensor sitting on my radiator, I tried to start the car, only to realize it was running on 2 cylinders, and its been doing so ever since.

A little back ground: the MS is built with Joe's new spark out circuit, wayne curr loaded his .msq and my MS ran his car just fine prior to shipping. When I recieved it I loaded the MSPNP map, which I now realize does not have inverted spark, and with the new spark out circuit I actually DO need inverted spark.

So back to present, here are the things I have done:

1. actually drilled and tapped the intercooler for the IAT sensor.
2. replaced my stock coils with another stock set (no change)
3. followed instructions from mt.net to configure MS so it knows I have an AEM WB
4. inverted my spark
5. set my required fuel for my pitiful 265cc injectors, not that it would make a difference, to a calculated 11.6
6. checked with the plugs out of the car and varified that I have spark with 1&4, but not 2&3.
7. made a very temporary harness for one of my COPs which I had laying around but not installed, and got spark with the plug resting on the valve cover
8. made a very temporary harness for my COPs, following all the instructions except having the 1kohm resistor between the 12v and tach line.
9. changed my dwell times to 2.5 running, 3.5 cranking

Those are the only changes I have made to the MSPNP .msq, and it is still running on 2 cylinders. I realized I shouldn't of tried it without the resistor, but once i saw that I had spark with the one COP, I hooked up the other three and honestly, all I wanted was for it to fire up on 4 cylinders for a split second. It's in no way a daily driver and no rushed "quick fix" is going to even see the wheels turn, much less any road time, and certainly no track time.

Notes: The gauge in the dash and the gauge in MegaTune are showing different readings for my AFR. Gauge says 16.3, where as MT says 12.53 (I think, it was in the mid 12's). I found the instructions that Joe typed up on how to calibrate this, I just haven't done so yet. Also the RPM gauge in MT has always been twice what the tach in the dash says, I figure this will right itself once I'm actually running on all four cylinders, but I also figure it's worth mentioning. Lastly, if it makes any difference all these 2 cylinder test have lasted no longer than 10 seconds.

I think that's all the information that relates to the problem, please if someone could diagnois this or give me something to test, I've run out of ideas and would greatly appreciate it. I have an awesome Fluke multimeter for testing, but no oscilloscope :(
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:48 AM   #2
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attach the current msq and take a log of it running on 2.
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:24 PM   #3
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Sounds good, I'll have to seach and learn how to log, but I'll do that and post my .msq this afternoon around 4 pst, stay tuned, lol.
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:28 PM   #4
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You have a 93. Perhaps its a california car?
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_Ciesielski View Post
You have a 93. Perhaps its a california car?
We already went through this. He is 100% certain that it isn't a cali car.

This double RPM in MT business is what troubles me. I'm really thinking we need to flash your firmware, but lets see that MSQ first.
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:53 PM   #6
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You have a 93. Perhaps its a california car?

this would have spark in all 4 cylinders but only fuel in 1 & 4.
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:58 PM   #7
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Oh, double check your wiring for the CMP/CKP signal as well. Its pins 24/25 on your harness. White and Blu/Wht wires. Should connect to 2E and 2G on your 64-pin connector. If these are backwards, you'll need to change a setting in MT rather than re-wire them.
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
6. checked with the plugs out of the car and varified that I have spark with 1&4, but not 2&3.
Ahh there it is. No spark 2/3, and you're runnign COPs. I'd check the trigger wire first.
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:22 PM   #9
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edit: ninja you are.
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Old 11-04-2009, 03:50 PM   #10
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Ok, I'll double check to see which cops aren't firing. I honestly don't know, I fired it up, it was still running like it was when I found the dead coil on the stock ignition, and then I went to bed. I'll check to make sure 24/25 on my db37 harness are connected right. Is that what you mean by checking the trigger wire Ben? I did check db31 & 36 all the way to the cops harness and they checked out as far as continuity goes. I'll still be posting my msq and a log shortly after around 4 today.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:17 PM   #11
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Checked harness, pin 25 goes to 2G, and pin 24 goes to 2E. Where is the other side of those wires, so I can check to make sure there's no break? .msq attached for your viewing pleasure. I'll now make a 10-20sec log for yous guys to look at. It'll probably have a few rpm blips in it, as it dies after a second or two if I don't give it a little gas.
Attached Files
File Type: msq copsinvertedaem.msq (35.2 KB, 56 views)
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:31 PM   #12
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Here's the datalog. I have no idea how you'd like me to format it. I tried a graph but it was all over the place with the wide range of Y values. Are there specific values you'd like me to graph and attach? The ones that interest me are the PortB and PortC values. B jumps between 54 and 118, and Port C is either 4 or 20. What the heck are those? Pity they're the only unlabeled ones!


Edit: With the cops I'm now getting now dash tach reading, seemed to rev a little easier, definitely didn't seem like 4 cylinders though, it would die with a quick jab of the throttle. I'm going to check spark on the COPs now. This whole computer-in-car thing is genious btw.
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File Type: xls datalog200911041631.xls (40.1 KB, 54 views)
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:48 PM   #13
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Just checked COPs, only firing on 1&4, very strongly however.

edit: I have a resistor here that says 1ohm 10% DALE 10W. Is that what I want between 12v and the tach signal? I have a .1 ohm and its tiny but the 1ohm is pretty big. I would assume a 1000ohm would be huge.
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:07 PM   #14
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Well the log looks like crap, no surprise there since you're running on 2. The MSQ looks fine, settings are all correct. I'm scratching my head...

Both outside LEDs are lighting up, right?

Have you tried re-burning the MSPNP MSQ?
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:47 PM   #15
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I have not tried reburning the mspnp. If you'd like me to do that, what all should I change before trying to start it? I have COPs now, so cranking and running dwell, and invert my spark, but what else? Or should I just load it and press the start button.

Both outside LEDs are lit whenever I flip the ignition switch, and I don't always check but whenever I look while the cars idling the middle one is on as well.

Seems to me like an "easy" diagnoisis, there's no trigger signal going to the 2-3 coil, which is currently split between the two COPs for cylinder 2 and 3. Now I need to figure out what to do about it.

How do I reflash my firmware? You said that might help, and I'd like to try that now.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:08 PM   #16
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At the bar right now, check brains writeup for firmware flashing instructions. If you need better instructions I can call you later tonight or type them up
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
edit: I have a resistor here that says 1ohm 10% DALE 10W. Is that what I want between 12v and the tach signal? I have a .1 ohm and its tiny but the 1ohm is pretty big. I would assume a 1000ohm would be huge.

Yes you want 1K or 1000ohm resistor. If you used anythign different this could be why the dash shows the wrong RPM. That's the pull-up resistor to power the tach signal, the lower the ohms, the more the powahhhh the signal will have.
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Old 11-05-2009, 10:00 AM   #18
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I thought the poor was more powahhhh. So te absense of the resistor explains the non functioning dash tach. I'll get a 1000ohm and throw it in.
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Old 11-05-2009, 10:03 AM   #19
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jump IG- and B+ in the diagnostics connector with a 1/4watt 1K resistor.
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
I have not tried reburning the mspnp. If you'd like me to do that, what all should I change before trying to start it? I have COPs now, so cranking and running dwell, and invert my spark, but what else? Or should I just load it and press the start button.

Both outside LEDs are lit whenever I flip the ignition switch, and I don't always check but whenever I look while the cars idling the middle one is on as well.

Seems to me like an "easy" diagnoisis, there's no trigger signal going to the 2-3 coil, which is currently split between the two COPs for cylinder 2 and 3. Now I need to figure out what to do about it.

How do I reflash my firmware? You said that might help, and I'd like to try that now.
Ok, to reburn the MSQ, you'll need to change the dwell for your cops and invert your spark, that is it to just get you started and running.

To flash the firmware, you'll use Easytherm which would have come with your DIY software pack (if that is indeed how you got megatune and mlv).

Open easytherm
Select your project (mine is called Car1HR)
The AIT and CLT bias should be 2490 if it isn't already
Under the apply tab select the right com port and click write .s19 and .ini files.
Click copy .ini to project
Click download to megasquirt
Should count up to about 1700 lines.
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