XEDE to MS - I'm still mixed about how it runs now - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-23-2011, 02:47 PM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,177
Total Cats: 27
Default XEDE to MS - I'm still mixed about how it runs now

My car was great now it's good.

With the MS I love the idle and low kPa driveability. I can go slow in traffic much smoother now. What I miss though is the slam dunk power. It feels like I have traction control as it builds power slowly and never really pushes me back like before. It's the opposite of a light flywheel effect.

Take that lightly as I still have a lot to learn about MS. Also I'm no longer able to control VVT so that accounts for about 20+ HP/TQ midrange.

I hate pestering Reverant as his time zone doesn't mix well with mine. He's been great with after sales support but I should let him rest a while.

We have recalibrated TPS and the wideband.

I've been autotuning all week with runs to and from work accelerating hard when possible. Trying to get the cells in the boost range all set.

Here is a log showing full throttle run and holding it at 100 TP (not trying to blow the motor and get a good log. It was blizzarding outside here in Canada so it was a bit dangerous as the rear end got loose) and my .msq

My AFR's under boost show tad rich on my Uego gauge while glancing over during runs but the VE tables seem lean??

Could it be base timing, exhaust leak, fuel pump, some other mechanical issue?

I'm going to check the base timing to see if something moved.

Let me know if I've totally messed something up and how we can bring back that lovin feelin......
Attached Files
File Type: msq 2011-03-23_11.03.51.msq (80.1 KB, 51 views)
File Type: zip 2011-03-22.zip (363.5 KB, 34 views)
Landrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 03:57 PM   #2
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

I love when turbo cars with crappy tunes get on the dyno or track and make me lol.

mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhpew
mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhpew
mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhpew
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 04:02 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 1,780
Total Cats: 30
Default

Looks like tsunami from the japanese earthquakes hit canadian shores and your fuel map.


(toosoon?)
Jeff_Ciesielski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 04:03 PM   #4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,177
Total Cats: 27
Default

wonk dit dit



From the movie A Simple Plan.

It means I am at a grade 3 level understanding of what's happpening to my car. Sure I can mechanically rebuild my carburated dirt bikes top and bottom end an tune by jetting. My nitro R/C car runs nice but I am still a noob with MS. My XEDE had fuel and ignition and that's all to adjust and so my brain worked. Once I get above 2 parameters its like I can't taste all the flavors !!
Landrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 04:09 PM   #5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,177
Total Cats: 27
Default

Oh that's not my Ve table, its one of those pictures you look at and after a while an image appears. The image is my facepalm.......


This is after VE Live.
Do I just keep on autotuning? I used a base map and then got correcting with Ve live every time I went out in the car. I have EGO off and Accell at 100% TPS.
Landrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 04:12 PM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 1,780
Total Cats: 30
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landrew View Post
wonk dit dit



From the movie A Simple Plan.

It means I am at a grade 3 level understanding of what's happpening to my car. Sure I can mechanically rebuild my carburated dirt bikes top and bottom end an tune by jetting. My nitro R/C car runs nice but I am still a noob with MS. My XEDE had fuel and ignition and that's all to adjust and so my brain worked. Once I get above 2 parameters its like I can't taste all the flavors !!
OK, I'll break it down. Your tune is aweful right now. You need to put some serious time into tuning your fuel map. Drive around with VE Analyzer running for a good hour or so. Start with the setting on easy and gradually step it up to hard (insert gay jokes). That will get you most of the way there.
Jeff_Ciesielski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 04:19 PM   #7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,177
Total Cats: 27
Default

Will do.

I assume I'll want to make that hour or more full of boost runs all through the rpm range and avoid steady state cruising all the while hitting burn every so often?


I'll report back after I get some more autotuning done over the next while.


Thanks
Landrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 05:09 PM   #8
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 107
Total Cats: 0
Default

Why would you want to avoid steady state cruise? I'd think if you want it to run right during a steady state cruise (with light load) you'd want to get that scenario dialed in just like everything else. Otherwise you just aren't getting any time on that part of the table.

Use the upper-right corner map in tuner studio to tell what sections you've hit in a given run and what sections you haven't. You want to make as much of the table as green as possible.

EDIT: Have you scaled that table for larger injectors? It looks like you're pulling massive amounts of fuel in some areas, but haven't exercised others at all. Was your base map set up for stock injectors?
bearda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 05:13 PM   #9
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,198
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

Is that wave looking fuel map a joke or is that seriously how your map looks like?

As far as autotuning, you want to go over as many cells as possible. The low rpm/boost/tp steady cruise cells are just as important in making your car smoother overall as the full boost ones.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 05:14 PM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 1,780
Total Cats: 30
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Is that wave looking fuel map a joke or is that seriously how your map looks like?
.
I took that screenshot from MLV about an hour ago.
Jeff_Ciesielski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 05:52 PM   #11
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (10)
 
Reverant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,441
Total Cats: 198
Default

Its like autotune PULLS fuel instead of adding fuel...I'm really stumbled by this,
Reverant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 06:04 PM   #12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,177
Total Cats: 27
Default

My steady state is good while cruising lightly to work on the highway.

The map was from Reverant, and we are both wondering about it pulling fuel. I can say that the dash AFR at boost looks good so I'm not sure.

I'll keep tuning daily to and from work and lunch times.

I'm ordering the vvt this week and get that all squared away.

What about EGO and accell enrich, leave as is?
Landrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 10:17 AM   #13
Supporting Vendor
 
Matt Cramer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,266
Total Cats: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Its like autotune PULLS fuel instead of adding fuel...I'm really stumbled by this,
Seen that happen when it was configured for the wrong O2 sensor. Before TunerStudio, I once left the O2 switchpoint in MegaTune at 0.51 volts after putting in a wideband and turned on MT's autotune function - ended up with a map that wouldn't let me get above 30 mph.
Matt Cramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 11:10 AM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 107
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Its like autotune PULLS fuel instead of adding fuel...I'm really stumbled by this,
If the AFRs are right that's why I'm thinking the Megasquirt seems to be putting in WAY more fuel than it thinks it is. What's req_fuel set at?
bearda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 12:08 PM   #15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,177
Total Cats: 27
Default

It's 5.5

Eng Dis 1800 cc
Cyl 4
Inj. flow 550 cc/min
A/F 14.7
Landrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 12:10 PM   #16
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (10)
 
Reverant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,441
Total Cats: 198
Default

Change eng dis to 1839, that's the number I had in there. Inj flow is 632cc on the NB2, since the fuel pressure is usually 57-60psi.
Reverant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 12:17 PM   #17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,177
Total Cats: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Change eng dis to 1839, that's the number I had in there. Inj flow is 632cc on the NB2, since the fuel pressure is usually 57-60psi.
Done, see if I can get out at lunch and test.



BTW can you send me that .xls of the build ?
Landrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 12:27 PM   #18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,177
Total Cats: 27
Default

Hey Reverant can you send me something like this that applies to my specific car and the MS2 build. Just so I can double check all my settings one more time.


Example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
Basic Setup:
req fuel ~12
speed density
2
alt
4
4
port
4
even

More Constants
Disabled
Multiply
(Should be include, but requires a retune)
speed density
disabled

Injectors (THESE SETTINGS NEED WORK)
0.88
.2
100
26
66
off

Tach
Miata 99-00
4.00
off
3
Falling Edge
Going Low (I think? Get this wrong, cook coils. Check for hot coils on car)
Wasted Spark
D14

More ignition settings (NEEDS WORK)
Use Table
1st deriv
-----
6.5
10.0
standard
5.5
1
0.7
latency" 6
off
off

Noise Filtering: ALL OFF
Rotary Settings: OFF

General: (most of these you can tweak)
Single Table
Initial Map Reading
105
75
100.0 (lower if you are at altitude)
50
50
50
60
50
50
16x16

Rev Limiter:
Spark Retard or fuel cut if you have a Cat, Spark Retard/cut if you don't
Normal (unless they fixed the low temps)
10
7250
7500 (note this is reving the motor a bit more than stock, use lower numbers if you don't understand)
3
7

EGO:
Single Wide Band (if you have a wideband)
16
1
10
156 (higher if you have a 180* thermo)
1300
100 (you may want 60% here)
150 (you may want ~80 for NA and 120 for turbo here. Considerably lower than max boost.)
20
Simple (I've heard they've fixed the PID here. But I heard they fixed the idle, too)

Advanced. :-)

Startup Idle:
400
70 (at least)
every event

Priming: (these are for my 550s, so 2-3x these numbers)
10.3* 6.0 ms
linear to
174* 2.5 ms

Cranking pulse
10.3 326
174 107
exponential fall off. Just play with it.

ASE
kinda linear
10.3 52
to
174 21
steeper at end.

ASE taper:
10.3 350 to 174 100 linear

Idle Control (START WITH THESE!)
PWM Warmup

Cranking Duty
30f 70% to 175f 60%

PWM Idle
1
Normal
8

PWM Duty
-40f 61
155 32
This takes playing with. On my car, it idles high (~1100 rpm) but I have a huge stereo.

Warmup Enrichment:
-40 251
100 122
155 100

Accel Enrich (I think this is injector dependant)
800
7000
off

Code:
8.0  2000  1000 25.5
3.0   750    999  25.0
0.2    500   600  12.0
0.1    125   100  4.0

68%

600  150
.6   100
0.3   3.0
0.1    130
Output Port Settings:
off
off
off

PM5(warmup):
coolant > 190 5.0
no second condition
0
0

off

PT7 IAC2 (VICS, I believe)
rpm > 5250 500
no second
0
1

Off

Barometeric (default, which sucks, but there you go)

(skip to knock)
Knock Sensor:
Safe Mode
MS2 AD7/JS4
Low Input
Pull Up
2
300
700
7500
20
0.2
3.0
0.8
1.5
3.0

Overrun fuel cut
on
1500
40
2.5
90
1.5
0

Staged: off

Tacho:
on
JS11
Normal

Overboost: (very good feature for early testing. Set for 8 psi to start)
Fuel Cut
(your target max boost + a couple PSI. ~200)
15 (tweak this number to suit)

Advanced Idle (I've not tested, so leave off)

Tools:
Don't forget to set TPS - likely 98 to 741 but check this
Thermistor: (Note: These settings suck. They work well around 160F, so I use them. Be aware, at high temps, it maxes out and has a hard time being accurate at 200* if you try to correct the resistance for 99* instead of doing what I did. This needs work! Make sure fans work after setting this.)
2490
C
-40 100700
30 2238
82 177



THESE ARE ALL BASELINE! NO PROMISES THEY ARE RIGHT! CHECK THEM ALL< READ UP ON MS-II AND HOW IT WORKS. Bad settings here CAN AND WILL blow up your motor, over heat it, etc.

This thread is to work out good settings, but, everyone share their ideas but nothing here is to be considered a recommendation or an endorsement, including (and especially including) ME!. :-)

That said, this shouldn't be that bad. The only real way to get in trouble is to not understand what you are doing. Don't set these settings and try to run the Indy 500. Load them on and CAREFULLY check everything. Go for a drive and log what you saw, IF it starts.
Landrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 01:29 PM   #19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,177
Total Cats: 27
Default

How does this spark map look ? I have not altered it.
Attached Thumbnails
XEDE to MS - I'm still mixed about how it runs now-spark.jpg  
Landrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 02:09 PM   #20
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (10)
 
Reverant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,441
Total Cats: 198
Default

That looks totally wrong. I've sent you a completely new map, try it and let me know.
Reverant is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 Yesterday 09:00 PM
Changing from 460cc to flow force 610cc in diypnp 90 Turbo MEGAsquirt 19 10-19-2015 04:23 PM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM
Koni 1150 Coilover Kit drumman83 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 2 09-25-2015 08:03 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:43 PM.