Yank's brick with MS3X (Noob tuner FTL)
 

Ill keep my tuning related issues in this section.

For reference. Build Thread.
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/build-thread-fe3-rx7-tii-efr-6258-ms3-58140/

Finished assembling the MS3 main board earlier this year after i put together the jimstim v1.5. tested it out the best i know how and it looks as though things are functioning properly. (i turn the knobs on the stim and the gauges on my screen move.)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1321750563

I pulled the stepper style ICV off my car today which came from a jeep grand cherokee 4L and hooked it up to the stim to make sure it works and it looks as though it is also working. Its not very smooth though. probably adjusts 3 or 4 times from CLT pot full off to full on.

Currently not working. (i could be hooking it up wrong) is the throttle position sensor. I made reference to this link via google search..
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/dir...w/.f0f8b2b/677
Valid info being...
*****Throttle Position Sensor - check voltage across the (+) wire (Purple/white) and the (-) wire (black/blue). Voltage should be 5.0 volts. Next check signal voltage across the (+) wire (orange/blue) and ground. It should be 0.5 volts. Move the throttle to a fully open position and voltage should increase to 4.5 - 5.0 volts*****

So i hooked up the 3 wires to a 5 volt source on the stim, the ground to ground and the orange /blue (mine is actually Green /red or i'm color blind) to the TPS screw down input. took measurements from ground to make sure i had 5v and also from the TPS input. The 5V checked out fine but the TPS measured 3mV when closed and 12.8mV when full open.
I tried to calibrate it at these low voltage outputs but its way to sensitive to register a gradual change. Any ideas on why this isnt working?

Im also looking for a base tune to start playing with. MS2 or MS3 will work from what i understand. I realize our engines and setups are completely different but i have to start somewhere. I plan on starting out with around 8 to 10 psi to start out. Im also wired for sequential fuel and spark so if its already set up then great, if not i can figure out that bit. Shoot me a PM if you have something i can use.

Thanks guys!

Any ideas on a troubleshooting process for the TPS?

Anyone have a safe tune for me to start from?
Im hearing 20 degrees of ignition and less than 12 psi.
I just have to get this thing started safe so VE analyze live can take over.

Thanks.

switched the source and signal wires going to the stim. getting 3.21V at 0% and 4.18V at 100% throttle. calibrated the TPS in tuner studio and it gave me a nice smooth sweep at this voltage difference.

Still looking for a MS2 or MS3 tune to start from. I'm pretty sure i'm not going to be able to start this thing with whatever is loaded on it initially.. Please.

PM Brainy, he might be able to help.

Every time i talk to the Brain i leave feeling retarded. :facepalm: He seriously has to be annoyed by all the dumb questions i've asked him so far. It may come down to this though.

He has literally offered to "hold my had" through my MS3X build, other members have told me that he has been very patient with there indecisiveness. If you feel bad asking a bunch of questions ask him what his favorite charity is and donate to it.

My favorite charity is my paypal account.

You could fix his BF3 game for him.

Ha! No joke if you get me a tune that starts my car and get me pushed off in the right direction using VE Analyze live id be more than happy to give you something for your time.

Honestly man there are a ton of spark tables and AFR tables that have been posted here over time, and if you dig, in addition to those you might just find some maps.

I found thirdgen's old AFR table and a few spark tables.. im sure i can find a fuel load one too (good old google search) but the values of this would completely depend on fuel pressure and injector size. What all do i need AFR target, Spark, fuel load,...? I just need to sit down and spend some serious time researching and exploring tuner studio. its hard to devote time to this right now when the car isn't all the way put together though.

Question for megasquirt guys. is sensor ground the same as signal ground. both the datalog switch and the launch control switch call for a signal ground from the megasquirt. I know my sensor ground is pin 19 i just need to know if its the same thing.

A ground is a ground is a ground.

HOWEVER, typically you try to keep the sensitive low current devices (sensors) grounded separate from the high current stuff (starter, fans, pumps etc)

I would agrue on the ground thing I've seen difference in voltage from using various grounds, also there is reasons certain devices want two grounds done for reference reasons.
Personally if its calling for a sensor ground, I would run it to a sensor ground wire from the harness.

yank for the fuel whats your injector size and type, for spark table you could probably just uses diyautotunes ms2 base spark map and interoplate to 16x16 cells

Perhaps, but if you read 3 different megasquirt guides/pinouts, you'll find 3 different ground schemes, and they all pretty much work interchangeably. I'm not a 'squirt wizard but that leads me to believe there is a common ground bus to the ECU

This is also what i hear. I'm going to ground the LC-1 O2 sensor to pin 19 for sure but i'm going to wait to hear from Ben from DIY autotune on the switches tomorrow. the momentary switch should be a digital signal not a variable / analog signal like the output of most sensors. this is why i question grounding it to the sensor ground.

Techsalvager thanks for the help! injectors are ID1000s, fuel pump is highflowperformance 255LPH, FPR is a FueLab 52501. Let me know what i should set my fuel pressure at to start out. Ill check the spark map you're referencing and do the interpolation. (Learned to interpolate in my thermo II class last year. haha putting that college education to use.)

Back to the garage. :)

wait a sec. Dude that's the purpose of REQ fuel in the software. So you can change injectors and fuel pressure and not have to start over.

If you configure your injector cc and psi, the req fuel value will change and should scale your fuel map to be equal. It won't be spot on, but should be close enough that you can sort it.

I have absolutely 0 empirical evidence to support this, but I like to run higher than typical fuel pressure, hoping that it makes atomization mo-betta. Plus it gives your injectors more headroom, which should not be a factor for you.

Industry standard is 43.5psi. I usually go for 80 if you have a pump that can handle it.

FYI answer from Ben Berusch of DIY Autotune

Sounds like the switches for sure go to sensor ground. Ill make this run today when i get off work. Last night I finished running all the wires to the mocked up switch panel seen in my build thread. Things are moving along nicely wiring wise. Hopefully Ill have this thing running by this weekend / next week assuming i can get the tune sorted out.

Thanks for the help everyone!

Is anyone running launch control with MS? Im wondering how you have it set up and what the logic is in your setup. The diagram i have says to use a momentary switch. is that the clutch pedal or a push button in the dash? Ive also seen the guy on youtube that runs an on/off switch for launch. does this mean he has to turn the switch off to have his normal rev limit after he dumps the clutch or does the VSS tell the ecu that its moving and to raise the limit even with the switch on?

yes. I just use TPS and the clutch switch.

Its better with the VSS hooked up. the on/off switch helps make sure it doesn't activate when driving and shifting, but the vss filter solves that.

Cool thanks.

So im going to refer to this for VSS.
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...&highlight=vss

and Ill do this for the launch control circuit. (See attached)

perfect. but I dont think you really need the override switch once the VSS filter is in place...unless you really want to rev your throttle to impress the ladies at stoplights.

fwiw, launch and vss have spots ready to go in the ms3x board without building anything.

I knew there was something for launch but i wasnt for sure on the vss. from what i've seen so far i'd need to use one of the 4 data inputs and the only one i have left is the nitrous switch. I read somewhere there is an output on the back of the gauge cluster on '90 miatas that isnt used and can tie into the ms3. Ill look more into this.

yeah, you have to pull the coverted digital signal off the cluster. I plan to do that this spring.

Okay I think im all read up on the VSS signal. This is what i've come up with. Ive referenced a few threads that said tapping into the RSW signal didnt work but they never mentioned building in the 5V pull up.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1325821667

Does anyone foresee any issues with me using the TPS VREF 5V signal for the Cam position sensor, VSS source pull up, and the TPS source?

I've been doing alot of reading and im learning alot here guys. Thanks for the help!

If you use the ms3x inputs you don't have to put a pull up on the line... There already is one on those inputs (check the ms3x schematic if you don't believe me, nitrous 1 doesn't have the pullup by default, but can be jumpered on the ms3x board to have one). I'm using the VSS signal from the gauge cluster, it comes out right at the harness and is soldered straight onto a ms3x input pin.

edit: Also, I think in general 1-2.2k is a little low for a pull up, think 4.7k or higher. moot point but anyway :)

just jump JP8 on the ms3x card... instant 2.2K pull-up to 12v.

come on sun.

You just need to make sure you have js9 jumpered to s12c or something to provide the pull-up resistance. I forgot to do that and it made mine not work for a while.

12v to js9, provides the 12v to the MSx card.

you'll still need to jump JP8 on the MSx card to provide the pullup on the nitro in circuit.

This what you guys are talking about? Id like to use SPARE ADC if possible.. that way i can leave the nitrous pin open for meth in the future..
see attached.
"R65,R66,R67 are optional 'bias' resistors on the analogue inputs EXT_MAP, EGO2, SPARE_ADC respectively. These would be typically used when connecting a resistive temperature sensor to one of the inputs. For standard calibration, use a 2.49K resistor with a GM style coolant or air temperature sensor."

source: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/hardware.html

Go to this link and it is step 23.

WTF! Where was this manual when i assembled my board?! I'm gonna have to go through all these steps and double check everything.

Thanks Shuiend.

I don't think the spare ADC inputs will work. Only Launch, datalog, nitro, tableswitch.

you don't need nitro in for meth.

Ben Berusch of DIY autotune responding to the use of SPARE ADC.=

"There are about a dozen different pins you can use for the launch input. I don't know if it needs external pullup or not. Try it, and if it doesn't work, then add a pullup."

frustrating... :facepalm:

I opened the case to see whats up and this is what i have..

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1325890376

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1325890376

Maybe i should just listen to Braineack from the get go..:idea:

Brain, did you mean JS8 to the JS9/S12C node?

I need to use the shaft speed settings then and leave the vehicle speed sensor settings set to off. (that's where i was thinking i could use spare adc)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1325890376

Unrelated Q:
Also take a look at the bottom of the board. I used jumpers from Tach select and VRIN and VROUT (seen center and next to MAP sensor.) Im using a ford hall effect sensor (cam angle sensor 2 wire) as my crank angle sensor to watch missing tooth. I built this under the impression that i was going to use a VR sensor but ended up with the hall instead.

no jp8.

use on of those IAC input pins. looks like you can use js0 or js2... you'll have to add the pull-up then.

aah My bad i thought you were talking about modding the main board. Looks to me like there already is a jumper on mine.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1325894008

This mean i should disregard this?and just hook up the NITROUS IN to RSW?

FYI i also have the same jumper in JP3 (Tacho output pullup (not using)), and JP7 (Cam input pullup (using currently with 3 wire CAS 1 ground, 1 5V source from TPS VREF and signal to ecu via CAM INPUT wire.))

nitro in to rsw would just be too easy for you :)

Yeah... :noob:

alright question. I'm trying to figure out the logic of the output port settings. The goal here is to get the LED's in the switch panel to light up to indicate when launch control and dataloging is active. From what I've read i can use the signal outputs to turn LED's on and off but i'm having a hard time understanding the logic in the output port settings. Anyone care to post up a screenshot of an instance and explain the logic in each box?

Thanks.

I want to say RTFM SOOOO bad.

so you'll go to say warmup LED and do active, then trigger 0 1

that means normal off, and the trigger turns it on.

pick your posion for the trigger. Not sure what launch or datalogging will be off hand, but search the list. Then you need to see what the status change will be in order to make the trigger. It might just be 1. This is possibly a question for the programmers.

the hystersis is the amount below the trigger value in order to shut it off, so leave it at zero.

that's about it in a nutsheel to light up something.

pretend you wanted a light to light up above 5000RPM

I'd do:

active, 0| 1

rpm > 5000 0

that's it.

I started setting up the ms3 tonight. Bought VE analyze live and the logger. I hooked it up to the car and started going through the initial setup for start up procedure and for some reason everything stopped working. the LEDs that turn on on power up dont work. when i hooked it up to the stim none of my gauges on the dashboard will move when i adjust the pots.. Any ideas on what happened here?

Edit** I will start with this later tonight. http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3trouble.htm

Just a guess but im pretty sure my buddy set the expansions DB37 leads on the face plate which could possibly short something out. the daughter board only had one row of the 2 rows in the plug for a bit as well.

This is what im looking at.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327118494

School sucks soooo hard this semester. Dynamics, multi-variable calc, and fluid mechanics is a deadly mix. Sorry i havent been on this project but i litterally have had 0 time to mess with the car.

Good news though. I had my EE friend check out the ecu. Tested all the components on the main board and all checked out okay. He ended up updating the firmware and erasing all my configuration settings which solved the problem. I must have had something set up incorrectly in the software. Hopefully i can make some progress on this over spring break.

We are trying to start up the car tonight if anyone can give us some advice please do. Im still waiting on my wideband to come back but my friend brought over his aem uego which is what we're trying to start the car on now.

See attached MSQ and Attempted datalog.

Also Video!



To expedite this process just call me.
270-4zero4-07three6

Preciate.

Here is a .msl

Looks like the Wideband sensor is bad so im back to waiting till monday for my LC-1.

Back to the first page quick, Yank, I have a question.
are your TPS wire colors Green/red, Green/black, Black/red? Which is 5v signal and what are the other two? It would help me greatly if you've got a pinout for them. Thanks much man,
Nick

I can get this answer for you this afternoon.

Still need advice on the fire but no start.

Chance91

mine has different colors but this is what i got. looking at the intake of the throttle body with the sensor clip on the left and the cam for the throttle cable on the right the pins top to bottom are
Purple/White = +5V source
Green/Red = Signal
Black/Grey = Signal Ground

A bad wideband will not affect your start. The wideband shouldn't even be properly warmed until 20 seconds after startup. I would start simple, like base timing, and go from there. Omit the basic car stuff before you start changing random settings.

Then run through the manual, and then re-read the manual. Google what you don't know, the principals of engine management are similar on all modern cars. Lastly, find a bunch of tunes to compare the ranges people use for different settings. Sometimes you change something less than 1% and you should be changing it 200%.

plays with fueling.

is your map line connected? I pull more vacuum than that on cranking. check for large vacuum leaks.

I did a leak test the other day and the only place im leaking is injector O rings and its nothing horrible. Let me double check the map sensor i have selected in the settings. Good observation.

I agree. I pulled the plugs and 3 of them look black and were covered with fuel. Now i just need to figure out how and where to make adjustments. Ive been looking around on megamanual and all i can find is some fuel calculator ---- and injection timing still cant find anything that allows me to change the amount of fuel per injection (duty cycle from what i understand). I'm about to go through these before i get started tonight:

MegaSquirt Information | EFI Installation Help | Technical Support - DIYAutoTune.com
-How-To: Setup Base Ignition Timing
-Secrets to Getting a Smooth Idle (new!)
-MegaSquirt and related Technical Videos / How-To's

Hopefully there will be something good in one of those videos about adjusting fuel. Otherwise if someone knows a good read on fuel adjustment post up a link please.

You adjust fuel by the Fuel VE table. higher values, more fuel. Once the car is running you can just auto-tune the whole VE table.

As for vacuum I just checked and I don't pull considerably more vacuum but I get down to like 85kpa before it catches.

Did you try holding the throttle partially/wide open while cranking?

Take the plugs out, lay them across the valve cover, disconnect fuel injectors and see if they are actually sparking (and in the correct order).

Double or half the VE values. you could be flooding -or- not giving enough fuel.

Great suggestion and information I'll try to half to VE table values. I did not hold the throttle down. Maybe my ICV is letting too much through too. Ill look into this further when i give it another shot.

Checked it. Spark and fuel firing sequentially in the correct order.

I cut the fuel in half and set the timing for fixed advance at 0, 5, 10, and 15 degrees. it seems to do best at 0 degrees. Backfires at 15 degrees some. cranking timing is set to 10 degrees still. it seems to be firing more consistently at 0 degrees fixed advance but still only firing a couple times and then stopping.

i dont think your cam/crank is reading properly. composite log isnt consistent, youre getting sync errors in a pattern with how the RPMs spike.


so revisit your wheel decoder settings bro.

Are you referring to the loss sync count in MLV? What log are you looking at? All the logs i've posted so far should have loss sync counts after the engine stops and before i begin to crank again. The last time i checked my composite log file i was looking good as far as i could tell. (blue bars for crank teeth and green spikes for cam. red sync flatlines )

Im surprised my started hasn't melted down by now. Pretty pissed right now, not gonna lie. I've spent all afternoon / evening trying to get this POS started and have literally gotten nowhere. My only achievement is being able to move around and make adjustments to 3D spark advance and fuel tables.

Some bullshit.

Fixing Tach.

1K resistor (Standalone ECU installs only - jump IG- to B+ in the diagnostics box if you have no tach in your gauge cluster)

I assume that this is a 12v pull up is that correct?

If so i need to do something a little different since i don't have the diagnostics box. could you give my primitive diagram the OK and or give an alternative solution.

Currently the tach pins on the coils are wired straight to the tach in the gauge cluster and the knocklite input.

Pretty sure Brain was right about the cam angle sensor. I ditched it for now and am running batch fire off of the crank position only.