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Old 08-03-2012, 10:09 AM   #1
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Default Yet another help me get my MegaSquirt running thread...

Okay... Here's my basic setup..

90 1.6
Greddy Turbo Kit
DiyPNP
Toyota COP conversion
460cc Injectors (Not installed yet)
PLX M300 Wideband being used as the stock o2 (Wired into the MS as narrowband currently because I wired it that way for the stock ECU. Yes i'll be changing it)

Currently still using the AFM. I have the IAT but haven't installed it yet. Trying to change as few settings at a time as possible.

Flashed the latest firmware, and used the DIYAutoTune basemap for 240cc injectors. I have larger injectors, but don't want to install them yet until I get it running right.

Also, yes I removed the STD_IGN fuse from under the hood. I hear the fuel pump turn on when I go key on as well.

First things first. I have a slight misfire with my COP that I had before the MS install. The coils are very well grounded, and I have a 10,000uf 50v cap installed on 12v and gnd. The misfire/stutter happens at VERY low loads between 3500-4000 rpms.. I figure something with the open/closed loop changeover? I figure i'll switch to MS so that I can find it / log it / fix it.

I tried starting the car with the basemap doing nothing other than verifying the settings as stated in the DIYAutoTune setup, and it started, but didn't want to idle. I changed cranking dwell to 4.0, and Maximum Dwell to 2.5ms based on Braineack advice seen in other threads, and didn't see a difference.

Only other thing I noticed when it started was that I heard an electrical humming noise coming from the engine bay. I realized that is the Radiator fan relay not fully engaging. I doubt its related, but I figured I'd mention it..

Am I missing/overlooking something here? I had another thread going for my MS communication issues, but I figured I'd start another one so the thread title is a little more relevant.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:33 AM   #2
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humm is idle valve. did you add the diode for it on the bottom right corner where hte two 470 ohm pulls up are?
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:42 AM   #3
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hmmm... i thought radiator fans because i go key on, i see the driver side fan start spinning while the hum is occuring, then when the hum stops the fans stop...


Yup.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:16 AM   #4
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did you calibrate sensors? fan shouldnt run like that unless you messed up the map/settings/parameters.
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:02 PM   #5
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Doh.. Just realized Yes I did, on the bench... Then when it stopped responding & I reflashed the firmware I never redid it.

I'm on Stock TPS so nothing to calibrate there.
I just did the CLT & AIT based on the values on DIYAutoTunes page. Set o2 to Narrowband.

Still doesn't want to start... And the humming appears to be coming from the throttle body area, not the cooling fan relay... I tried to start with no throttle and with WOT... If I did WOT i could get it to fire but wouldn't maintain an idle... Also had one or two backfires in the intake... i'll add a bunch of screenshots in a sec..

Last edited by nperkins; 08-03-2012 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:04 PM   #6
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Any more screenshots that would help?
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:40 PM   #7
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First you write this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nperkins View Post
...
I tried starting the car with the basemap doing nothing other than verifying the settings as stated in the DIYAutoTune setup, and it started, but didn't want to idle. I changed cranking dwell to 4.0, and Maximum Dwell to 2.5ms based on Braineack advice seen in other threads, and didn't see a difference.
Then two posts further down you state that it still doesn't want to start. Which one is it?
Not starting is rather different than not idling...
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:45 PM   #8
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Sorry... I should have been more clear. It has difficulty starting (Engine turns over fine), then when it catches and begins running, it doesn't want to idle.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:19 PM   #9
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wait... do I have to unplug the TPS or not? I saw a PDF instruction that says you do... but the diyautotune doesnt mention it..

EDIT: this heat is getting to me... I need to slow down and pay attention. That was a BoostedMiata how to.. Doesn't matter anyways... I unplugged the TPS and still have that humming sound. I'm guessing its the IAC... Need to look into those settings I guess..

EDIT: Saw in another thread Braineack said cranking RPM needs to be 350... It was 200... That helped it to turn over and begin firing much faster.

I also switched over to the IAT sensor... Just wired it into the AFM plug..

Last edited by nperkins; 08-03-2012 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:54 PM   #10
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after staring swearing and losing my mind, i realized the car was trying to maintain 19:1 afr's... I brought the whole VE table way up and now its running like a champ... The IAC still makes some noise with key on not running and when first starting...
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:21 PM   #11
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Congrats!

There was another thread here about a week or two ago about a similar humming noise. I believe the solution was that a frequency was not set properly. I thought it was for an EGR valve though.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:01 PM   #12
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As far as I know, no one has used the MS to control the EGR valve based on what I have read. If the IAC valve control frequency is off it will hum or squeal, but I don't think that is necessarily more than an annoyance and you can change the setting to minimize it.

A 1.6 should be very easy to start when properly setup (no throttle input required and minimal cranking), setting the cranking speed prevents the engine from trying to run without the starter at too low of a speed.

The fact that VE was so too low makes me think that you have a timing issue, more timing = more fuel required. A backfire during startup is usually a fuel problem, or your spark is firing at the wrong time. Have you set your base timing? I see your offset is 10*, is that right?
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:59 PM   #13
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Stefan... I saw that too, but didn't see how to properly set it.

3rd car... I set my base timing a few weeks ago on stock ECU and it was dead nuts on 10 degrees... Granted that was before the COPs were installed... I'll recheck it tomorrow. Should my physical base timing should match the offset?

When the car is idling, the MS shows about 16 degrees or so..

I drove the car around the block. Its hitting 5psi as it should, was at low 12 afrs when hitting boost (Never went WOT) and felt so much slower than with stock ECU and FMU. I assume this is because its a BASEMAP... Tomorrow if the car isn't in the paint booth it will be on the dyno so I can really hammer on TunerStudio and learn it more and get the car running right...

I also need to learn MegaLogViewer more too...

EDIT: on 280cc injectors on my 1.6, it says 9.6 for req_fuel... Is that why I had to bring up my VE table so much?

Last edited by nperkins; 08-03-2012 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:41 PM   #14
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I would not drive until you verify your timing, my expertise is with the nb, but your timing could be off by a substantial amount.

You need to read the manual on how to set/verify base timing. The ms doesn't know the timing inherently, it must be set. The offset is the difference between what you read in tuner studio and what you actually measure at the crank, with the goal being to read the same value both places.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:49 PM   #15
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Duh makes sense.. I'll check that first thing in the morning..
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:43 PM   #16
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Wanted to say thanks for your help guys. Car is running MUCH better...

I set the base timing, car ran better...

Played with REQ_Fuel because my VE tables were much higher than some I had seen on here... With 280cc injectors i'm at req_fuel of 12ms... That sound about right?

My only real thing I'm trying to do now is get the car to lean out on decel. It will sit in the 12's, when it should basically be going full lean... I assume this is because I have no TPS, right? I tried playing with the accel enrichment, but by playing with the MAP based decel settings, anytime i let off the gas a hair, it would buck... Or is that because I need to make my window more "extreme" so to speak?

Here are my VE, AFR, and timing tables.. It would be greatly appreciated if you can let me know if I'm on the right track or way off base. I haven't done the high RPM/Load cells yet, as I need to put in the new clutch (Tonight), and I don't want to do that on the street... I'll be doing that on the dyno hopefully this weekend...







Note: I will also be changing injectors this weekend to RX7 460cc, so I know that will change my req_fuel, and probably some of my VE tables as well... But I want to know if I'm in the right direction. I'm also curious if my timing is in line or if I'm way off... I don't know how miatas like to run for timing... I hear no knock, and it still seemed stronger in spots on the stock ECU with an FMU, so I want to know if I can keep bumping my timing where needed, or if I'm missing a setting somewhere else...
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nperkins View Post
My only real thing I'm trying to do now is get the car to lean out on decel. It will sit in the 12's, when it should basically be going full lean... I assume this is because I have no TPS, right? I tried playing with the accel enrichment, but by playing with the MAP based decel settings, anytime i let off the gas a hair, it would buck... Or is that because I need to make my window more "extreme" so to speak?
I believe this is handled by the "Over Run Fuel Cut" settings. If you have no TPS, maybe set the "TPS lower than" to 100%?
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:20 AM   #18
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My TPS is completely disconnected... Can I still use that?
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:50 AM   #19
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No, you'll have to get VTPS.

If that's the base spark map, and if it's anything like the gen1 spark map, it's incredibly conservative. BUT, since you're just starting out, I would suggest leaving it alone until you get everything else like bigger injectors and AFRs sorted.

Required fuel really doesn't matter, it seems to just be a multiplier for the fuel table. So in theory you could use the same req_fuel number for any injector and just REALLY jack with the fuel table to make it work.

There's a little button next to the req_fuel number, and it opens a little calculator that'll help figure your req_fuel. It works well if you use a certain value for the Air-Fuel Ratio field. I think 14.7?
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
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No, you'll have to get VTPS.

If that's the base spark map, and if it's anything like the gen1 spark map, it's incredibly conservative. BUT, since you're just starting out, I would suggest leaving it alone until you get everything else like bigger injectors and AFRs sorted.

Required fuel really doesn't matter, it seems to just be a multiplier for the fuel table. So in theory you could use the same req_fuel number for any injector and just REALLY jack with the fuel table to make it work.

There's a little button next to the req_fuel number, and it opens a little calculator that'll help figure your req_fuel. It works well if you use a certain value for the Air-Fuel Ratio field. I think 14.7?
Yeah, it said 9.6 with these injectors which I thought was low compared to VE tables I had seen, so I bumped it. I believe you are right that its just a multiplier though, and I think I read somewhere that said the same thing...

I'm glad to hear you think my timing is conservative.. I wanted to keep going, and the car felt like it wants more timing, but I just wanted to be sure..

Installed the new clutch last night so i'll do lots of driving this weekend to play with the part throttle timings...
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