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Old 05-21-2007, 05:27 AM   #1
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Default horsepower gains ?

I've been reading alot about WI , mainly on this board. Because I do intend on buying a system. I like the idea of using water to cool intake temps which i assume , and EGT's also, correct that if it's wrong please. I like that WI will keep the combustion chamber clean. I like that WI will discourage knock.

What I'm having trouble finding is documented HP gains for WI on miatas. With the large number of DO kits sold here I thought there would be more data. this thread discusses a lack of gain :
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6985

I know of a guy named Wally on the powerlist that spent a day tuning his car on a dyno with and without WI and i believe he obtained minimal results.

neogenesis2004 didn't foolowup on this thread. after searching way back it looks like he suffered some engine damage either at the dyno or shortly after. sorry for your loss , i know your pain.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6985

After seeing the video of robert's DO kit pulsing very slowly with his 3gph nozzle and the very noticeable variances in the amount of mist , i have concerns about any kit that operates that way. which is bad since i really only wanted to spend about 300 on a kit. I would be concerned about steady AFR#'s if i was injecting meth with that kind of oscillation.

question, does injecting water only affect AFR #'s ?

anyway sorry for the rambling , I'm at work and have been up all night and just had some downtime so I've been reading alot tonight.
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Old 05-21-2007, 01:21 PM   #2
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Yeah most these guys are too lazy to go do before and after dynos. I fronted one of the higher horsepower members a kit to do just that for me and not only has he still not completely paid me but he is such a lazy stoner that he went and dyno'd without it even installed. I am sure some gains will be posted here eventually by someone. I have some before and afters from some other cars if you are interested. One Gti Vr6t made 60 whp more with the kit and turning the boost up 3 psi.
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Old 05-21-2007, 01:44 PM   #3
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i ran only WI so sorry i will try to get Andys kit from him eventualy :gay: and probably pay you for it seems kinda silly how he is acting on it.
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:43 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Wideopentuning View Post
but he is such a lazy stoner that he went and dyno'd without it even installed.
so we all agree he's a stoner?
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:51 PM   #5
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so we all agree he's a stoner?
Been there , done that.
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:55 PM   #6
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I'll be at the FFS dyno day on Saturday. I wonder if it's worth dynoing with the Aquamist on and then Aquamist off?
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Old 05-21-2007, 03:49 PM   #7
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I'm just cheap.....but I'm in the middle of my DO install right now. Hopefully during the summer. I was also gonna compare the RX-7afm on the Greddy setup, but I've been saying that for years.
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Old 05-21-2007, 04:33 PM   #8
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I think the gains come from what you're able to do with water/meth. It's not that the water gains you power, but that it allows you to turn up the wick, which unlocks power.

Kinda like a built engine. Stronger rods won't make more power themselves, but they'll allow you to make more power via other methods.
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Old 05-21-2007, 05:12 PM   #9
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Rocdoc noted intake temps of 160F with ambient of 58F. Seems a little out of line. If those #'s are accurate they may be why he didn't get any power gains by advancing the timing.
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Old 05-21-2007, 05:17 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by chuckerants View Post
I'll be at the FFS dyno day on Saturday. I wonder if it's worth dynoing with the Aquamist on and then Aquamist off?
what are you injecting?
if water only then i wouldn't expect any difference in the #'s if you run the same timing map with the WI on and off. If you're injecting alcohol then there may be a difference without any differant timing maps but certainly should be a potential for gains with timing changes due to the increase in octane the alcohol would provide.
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:59 PM   #11
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chuck runs Winsheild washer fluid or abit of heet mixed with distilled water most of the time.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:13 PM   #12
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Actually, I'm running about 50/50 meth/water.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:25 PM   #13
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I will be in AZ this weekend at FFS dyno. I then am going to purchase a LC-1 and DO WI. when I get back and I aint bullshitting I have CS MP62 and the exhaust side is empty. I want the universal with a one gallon resevoir that DO sells have not decided yet on progressive or not. probably

who do you source from for LC-1 and WI (DO) Wideopentuning? who.. where what? He seems to be the guy who replied to my stupid noob questions prior.

least I can do is be a customer

WI I look at is a safeguard. I am presently set up with a 110mm pulley but will buy WB first and then WI "bump" I luv that word up to a 120 mm. WI has lots of advantages but I am not going to rely soley on its benifits. My only concern is will WI mixed in with 5th Injector be counter productive to each other? no **** I am wondering that and I dont think anyone knows and will just have to try it.

really... I looked for website for WOT... can't find. I guess I can wait on next group buy

later,

Buck \\
MP62 on the "right" side \
Hot as a pepper but smooth as a Mexican brew

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Old 05-21-2007, 09:28 PM   #14
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buy the LC1 from him or from DIY autotune we have no vendors but we do have people we like that sell stuff.
glad to see more people getting wet.
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mymiataflys View Post
Rocdoc noted intake temps of 160F with ambient of 58F. Seems a little out of line. If those #'s are accurate they may be why he didn't get any power gains by advancing the timing.
The problem with monitoring intake temps with WI is the sensor gets soaked with water so you end up with unreliable readings.

But i've said before, if your wanting to lower AIT's then WI is not the best solution, for my money WI best trick up it's sleeve is knock threshold reduction.

On my 94 with a MP62 Hotside running at 9psi without a IC, i was able to get back 6 degrees of timing, i've not visited a Dyno so can't offer you hard data, but from the seat of me pants Dyno the car felt noticeably stronger.



Cheers
Mark
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:45 PM   #16
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I have you covered on the Devils Own kit, Wideband(many to choose from) or most other turbo related parts.
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Old 05-30-2007, 12:49 PM   #17
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Default I am ready now to buy LC-1

will be contacting you soon for either LC-1 or WI

Buck

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Old 05-30-2007, 02:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mymiataflys View Post
Rocdoc noted intake temps of 160F with ambient of 58F. Seems a little out of line. If those #'s are accurate they may be why he didn't get any power gains by advancing the timing.
lemme jump in here-i now believe that temps quoted were indeed inaccurate as i found a "issue " with my temp sensors/gauge.

Since re-fitting the sensors and replacing the gauge i now see intake temps of between 10 lower to 10 deg higher than ambient- usually about 50- 60 degF over here in bonnie scotland.

I am still using the TDR A/A I/C and a single point 0.3MM nozzle just after the I/C , just pre DTB/Intake manifold.

But from what i can see the I/C is doing the "lions share " of the cooling -as my WI never really released huge amounts of power- as when i started advancing the timing even farther(despite the fact i never encountered knock) - i began to lose power.

I,m about to experiment with methanol/water mixes
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:44 PM   #19
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I felt some power loss with straight water, I then decreased my retard by 2 degrees in each row- the car felt normal again, but stayed peppy even in warmer weather (boost seems to come on quicker as well). I too have a intercooler with WI. I've noticed on Freeways, after boosting my temps will lower to ambient, then climb there way up to around 20deg above until I boost again. In the city I'll be running 40-50 degrees above ambient until I boost. If lowering you intake temps are your primary goal, you should probably look at a intercooler sprayer or bigger intercooler. I just bought 20 litres of methanol for 27$ from a Esso direct distributor, so I'll see how methanal effects the power. I'm guessing the methanol is the key for making more power without as much tuning with straight water.

P.s.- F1 and WRC banned W/M injection for a reason.....too much power.

Last edited by MiataNuTca; 05-30-2007 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:04 PM   #20
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the fact that it is lowering your temps after heatsaok says alot. Like i have always said the real benefit of WI with a IC is in performing in areas where the previus IC was innefecient enough to cool the charge. If the IC has taken out to much heat then the mixture wont stay suspended properly and will not help as much. Methanol helps the suspension a great deal i reccomend 30 ro so % as that works rather well for me 50/50 is not as good GL
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