Questions: WI with Emanage? Basic Vs progressive?
 

Hello, I have some questions about how the basic wi kit work.
I figured out that in the basic kit the water pump is driven by a relay... and the relay is triggered by a pressure switch, right?

Anytime the pressure switch reaches X psi, the relay start the pump and the water flows and get sprayed in the manifold...

So it's possible to trigger that relay with one of the auxiliary output of the e-manage (ultimate), using the Manifold Pressure vs RPM map (if you have a map sensor) to switch on and off the pump...

What are the limits of this setup, compared to a progressive one? (driven by the devils own progressive controller)

How fast is the pump response or how much time took the pump to build pressure in the hose to get the water sprayed effectively?

Is there a way to have a progressive Water injection using the emanage to control it? (maybe using an injector feeded from a high pressure water rail?)

Thanks!! (how much for shipping the kit to europe? :) )
(I made some corrections...)

The relay can not pulse quick enough to offer any sort of resonable control over the pump.
The link with info and pricing are in my sig.

So, how is controlled the injection in the basic kit?
There is a wiring scheme somewhere so that I can understand what controls the injection?

180$ for the basic kit shipping anywhere in the world included? Wow, I tought shipping was for US only...

Ok, I have found the wiring sheme on the installation pdf.

It's really simple: the pressure-switch trigger the relay, the relay switch on and off the pump...
I see no problems to use e-manage to trigger the relay (based on pressure-sensor signal vs rpm or other maps) and discard the pressure switch.

Anyone tried?

You can do it that way. Here's similiar setup instructions as I've done on my Subaru. I do use a cheap solenoid to allow pretty instant spray. The instructions use a UTEC (Suby management) to trigger the pump/solenoid. Same could be done with the Emanage.

http://www.projectwrx.com/modules.ph...howpage&pid=34

Frank

Thanks Frank,
so you start the water pump and open the solenoid at the same moment?
What's the gain of this setup versus the pump+check valve?

Why you can't start the pump with the engine (when arming the systen) and then just opening and closing the solenoid? The pump will suffer from being on all the time?

The prices do not include shipping outside the US.

Actually the UTEC on that page just powers the solenoid I think. You are right. My pump is on all the time. The pump is an on-demand pump. If it senses that no fluid is in the line it pumps until the line is full again. Then you'd have your output of the ECU either close the ground or provide 12v to the solenoid at a given MAP which fires the solenoid. Your tuning would also revolve around this firing point, taking advantage of the extra cooling/octane by adjusting timing/boost/AF ratio accordingly.

I actually use the kit with a pressure switch because my ECU doesn't have an output to fire the solenoid. Still works the same. My switch is normally open and set to 12 psi. At 12 psi the switch closes, the output (ground) closes the loop to the solenoid ground, and the solenoid fires while I'm above 12 psi. The pump keeps up automatically.

I'll add that Wideopentunings basic kit is a pretty good deal. The pumps are going for more than the site I listed. Plus the time and shipping to order stuff from different suppliers. And you get vendor support.

Frank

Ok, now the point is... can I make a WI setup with a standard pump being on all the time and just firing the solenoid with my ecu... or the pump will burn in minutes? (or the hoses will explode under pressure? :gay: )

Maybe to make this setup I need at least a pressure-switch that controls the pressure in the water hose and start the pump or shut it down when the pressure is out of a given range?
Not so hard, anyway...but is it worth?

You would want to have a pressure switch activate the pump before you hit your target boost you wanted to start spraying at. In fact, I would recommend using the vacuum switch for NA cars. Any time you reached 0 manifold pressure the pump would turn on. Leaving the pump on all the time would put excessive strain and wear on all components involved.

Wouldn't you want the pump to maintain a constant pressure in the WI system, regardless of what mani pressure is? IE the WI pump turns itself on & off to hold XX psi--regardless of what the mani pressure is, or if the WI system is spraying or not. Then the emanage fires an injector independantly--and that injector is fed at a fairly constant pressure.

Exactly. And it's simply doable with a pressure-switch that senses the water pressure of the system triggering the pump relay when it's needed, regardless of manifold pressure or system spraying.

Is this more complex setup worth it (in terms of response, etc...), compared to the simple pump+checkvalve of the basic kit?

Assuming that line pressure can be held fairly constant (if the switch and pump are up to the task), all you'd have to do is build a map in the emu. Seems like a great idea to me.... but I've got no hands-on experience with WI or EMU. The concept seems solid.

Seems you need a high speed valve instead of a simple solenoid, to hold the pressure of the water line...

Stolen from aquamist:

Yes, but correct me if I'm wrong... But they use the hsv before a nozzle. I was under the assumption that you going to use an injector. I don't see why you'd need a hsv if the EMU were controlling an injector.

the pump will get bunrt out quik if you leave it runing wiht nothing comming out the other side. just do a simple setup it is the easiest and most effective for the money.

Why? This method is commonly used for pressure systems. If there are no pressure leaks in the system, the pump won't run very often or for very long.

The auxiliary channels of EMU can drive injectors/solenoids or relays... so the plan was to use a simple solenoid......I think you can use a fuel injector instead, but don't know if it's usable with water/alchool instead of gasoline.

Anyway I have some spare 460cc I can modify to be feeded from a water hose instead of a fuel rail and try...

becouse the pump isn't designed for continues use, and you will burn it out. When and, or if the pump goes this is a bad situation for you and your car.

I'd run the WI feed right to an injector, and let the EMU pulse it, and ramp flow with fuel. Sounds like a great plan to me.

460cc/min equals roughly 7.5 gallons/hour. WOT, what size nozzle do you typically recommend with the DO kit?




You missed the point. It's not continous use. In a pressure system, the pump only occasionally comes on to maintain pressure. When the hsv/injectors aren't flowing, I can't see it being on for more than a few seconds. And it won't come on often. When the hsv/injectors are open, water will flow through the pump.