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Old 09-09-2007, 01:18 AM   #1
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Default WI only at 220HP???

Current setup:
T25/28 at 12-15 PSI (approx 220 HP)
Link ECU
IC that came with FM3 kit
DO WI kit

I would like to remove the weight of the IC (anyone know how much it weighs?) and gain a little throttle response in the process. I think it would work with just WI but I am a little worried about potential problems caused by the pulsations with my pump (see old thread below). Anyone have any comments before I rip this bitch up?


Old pump pulsation thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8034
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:40 AM   #2
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after adding a pump and a tank for the amount of water you would want to not have to worry about watter between gas fills I would be that you would be about the same weight as whatever intercooler you already have.
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:48 AM   #3
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Yep you wont loose alot of wieght but you will make more hp. You run the same pump i do Rob. I say make a temp crossover and try it. If it works for me and others it should work for you. If with just the WI in place on a improvised crossover and the IC still hanging there feels acceptable after you tweak the fuel etc abit. Then remove the IC and drive abit with just the WI. FWIW my 1.5 gallons lasted like 30 or so minutes+ with only 1 nozzle. I use a whole friggin lot now that i use 2 but sub 12-13 psi 1 should work just fine for you.
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Old 09-09-2007, 03:42 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
after adding a pump and a tank for the amount of water you would want to not have to worry about watter between gas fills I would be that you would be about the same weight as whatever intercooler you already have.
I have both WI and IC on the car now so I would be losing weight. I had no idea that Magma was using that much water but that must be on the track or something. I wouldn't see why I would use more water than I do now (1 gallon every 6 months <G>) so it shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 09-09-2007, 04:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcelwee View Post
I have both WI and IC on the car now so I would be losing weight. I had no idea that Magma was using that much water but that must be on the track or something. I wouldn't see why I would use more water than I do now (1 gallon every 6 months <G>) so it shouldn't be a problem.
He uses that much water driving it around. He hasn't been on a track in awhile unless i'm mistaken. Heavy foot and two nozzles?
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Old 09-09-2007, 05:20 AM   #6
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Robert, I think Emilio over at M.net played with a WI only setup on his '99 turbo car. You might drop him a line and see what he has to say about it. He was looking for increased throttle respose as well.
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Old 09-09-2007, 10:40 AM   #7
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I'm sure there's a way to smooth out the flow with a surge arrestor/ accumulator. I think WOT said something about Devil's Own coming out with one?
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:53 PM   #8
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I use so much water cause i drive it hard and 2 200+cc/min nozzles drink alot of water. at 14 or so psi. works out to be 12-13 minutes of full boost. At 1.5 gallons
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Old 09-09-2007, 02:27 PM   #9
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I think you will gain more throttle response with tuning than with removing the intercooler. The weight drop is not worth it.
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wideopentuning View Post
I think you will gain more throttle response with tuning than with removing the intercooler. The weight drop is not worth it.
You are right/wrong. Yes, I have a shitty tune right now. I wish there was someone I could take the car to and just pay them to tune the damn thing. None of the dyno operators around here can tune for ****.

But, I still think that the drop in intake volume and weight would be worth it. It couldn't hurt!
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
I use so much water cause i drive it hard and 2 200+cc/min nozzles drink alot of water. at 14 or so psi. works out to be 12-13 minutes of full boost. At 1.5 gallons
1.5 gal of water in 30 minutes (1 nozzle) per your other post means (just guessing) 1.5 gal of water in 20 minutes. If you are driving 120 MPH you will cover 40 miles during that 20 minutes. At 10 MPG that means you are buring up 4 gals of gas. So, you are running a 3:1 ratio (gas:water)? Yeah, my numbers are way off but I'm just trying to figure out what kind of ratio you are using. I thought much more than 10:1 and you were wasting water/power. Where am I going wrong?
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Old 09-10-2007, 01:01 AM   #12
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Nope i use 25% or so. 1 nozzle hits 250 or so cc/min wich is 3.9 gph and my 2nd stage is 200 or so cc/min at the pressure i run at of 95-100 psi 3.15 gph totall of 7 or so gph. I have hit 80 or so% DC on my 550's and i hit 97-100% on my 460's at 14 psi before. So figure 27-28 gph of fuel and 7 gph water gives us 25%
Most IC setups run 10% at most becouse there AIT's are a good bit lower. I on the other hand am staring at 230+ degree pre WI temps most likely.
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Old 09-10-2007, 08:33 AM   #13
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The FM3 kit has an anchor for an IC. Go with a tube and fin and drop a lot of weight. See the JasonC thread.

Frank
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Old 09-11-2007, 12:24 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
The FM3 kit has an anchor for an IC. Go with a tube and fin and drop a lot of weight. See the JasonC thread.

Frank
I am confused on what you are trying to tell me? I currently have the IC that came with the FM3 kit. It has an anchor for a different one? Which JasonC thread are you talking about?

(night shift is slowly killing me!)
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Old 09-11-2007, 12:34 AM   #15
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He assumed you have a bar&plate IC i believe like most of us on the forum. He was referring to you using a tube and fin ic replacement to drop some weight because the bar and plate would be much heavier than the tube and fin.
So is your current IC tube and fin or bar-n-plate?
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Old 09-11-2007, 05:40 AM   #16
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I tried running ICless, but found that at around 11psi i either had to start pulling timing or i was adding so much water it fooooked the performance.

At 9psi the WI only system worked great, but when the ambient temps reached over 30c i had to start adding over 15% water and noticed the performance drop off.

I leaned out the AFR's but then needed to add water again, no amount of balancing could claw back the lost performance, and anything over 20% caused spluttering.

In the end i took the water % back and knocked 4 degrees off the timing and fitted a IC, now with the IC and WI i'm able to run the stock ECU's timing curve at 14btdc through 46c+ weather no worries


Cheers
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Old 09-11-2007, 11:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjernigan View Post
He assumed you have a bar&plate IC i believe like most of us on the forum. He was referring to you using a tube and fin ic replacement to drop some weight because the bar and plate would be much heavier than the tube and fin.
So is your current IC tube and fin or bar-n-plate?
It is a bar and plate. Probably very little chance that I will purchase a different type (too damn cheap). I guess I will have to stay heavy unless I remove it all together.
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Old 09-12-2007, 09:39 AM   #18
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Rob when i was 225 or so hp 10-12 psi i only used 2.7 or so gph wich got me like i said before a 1/2 hour of boost past 4 psi it was very liveable and worked just fine. What ever you decide I look forward to the results
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Old 09-12-2007, 11:34 PM   #19
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I wish I could go to the dyno, get a good tune. Yank the bitch out (IC) and tune again to see the results. Of course, there isn't a good dyno operator within 300 miles of Charleston, SC so I guess I will just have to live with my shitty tune...
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