Ordered MS3 basic today for a 2002 VVT swap in my 1990. Stoked!

Ordered! Can't wait to get it in and start playing! Thanks again Rev for your excellent customer service!

What's the difference between wideband input and wideband digital input?

I don't have my Basic MS3 yet (any day now, hopefully!), but my understanding is that 'windeband input' refers to the standard analog 0-5v input, and 'wideband digital input' refers to a serial input that can be hooked up to the serial out of your wideband controller, if it has one. He sells a separate module which connects to the CAN bus inputs on a regular MS3 which provides the same functionality (https://www.miataturbo.net/ms-labs-m...terface-78449/) but I guess the Enhanced MS3 has the functionality built in.

I'm not sure but I'd imagine the big advantage to serial input is you don't have a chance of the gauge and TunerStudio reading different values. However that's usually not too difficult to fix if it even occurs in the first place.

There may be other advantages that I don't know.

I bought the wideband CAN interface module for my MS3-Basic for the following reasons:

1. It should completely eliminate ground offset due to wiring variables
2. Insanely fast wideband input
3. Why use touchy ass analog when digital is available?
4. Its fucking cool

Yes the box adds an additional point of failure, but the analog inputs are still there on my Basic. A software change and some minor wiring and I can still drive home. My CAN module will be going in sometime in the next week along with a new LC-2

The box also acts a failsafe. If the wideband supports it, the module will read error codes from the wideband and prevent the MS3 from going into closed loop fueling. It will also do the same if the wideband is not responding on the serial port. The MS3 itself will not enter closed loop if the module is not working.

So all in all, its safer than the analog input.

On the Innovate LC-2, the gauge is analog input as well as MS. To know the correct digital output of the controller, one must also run Logworks, the Innovate software that displays and logs from the LC-2 serial port.

To be all set up right, one must compare 3 gauges, one digital and 2 analog.

With the module, it is only two. And, the one that is running your engine is the most accurate one.

With that comes a question for Reverant: Is it possible to input both the CAN and the analog into the MS3, run on the CAN but display and graph both?

I don't see why not. Just create another gauge in TS with that input and you should be good to go.

Hey reverant, i'm new here and i got my hands on a BEGI turbo kit.

All i need is the ecu and wideband now.

Some users on this forum headed me your way.

So, what's the deal with your megasquirt setup ? I need help.

Is it Plug n play ?

How much is it ?

How can I buy it, I need it pretty quickly.

Thanks alot ! (you can pm me if youd like)

Yes, Plug-n-play. Read the thread and it says that in the first post.

PM him and he'll tell you how much and his PayPal address.

Quick is relative. He's in Greece and builds them to order, when you pay. They're not sitting on a shelf waiting for you to pay for same-day counter-to-counter International shipping.

PM sent :naughty:

I am glad I found out about this while Reverent still had my unit. It's a no brainer for $100. I am looking forward to the arrival of my MS3 more than ever now.

Yep, I got my Basic MS3 with serial wideband unit installed yesterday, and it was very reassuring seeing the AFR's in TunerStudio correspond exactly with what the AEM wideband gauge was showing. Didn't have to do any calibrating or anything, it just worked out of the box. Really glad I got the serial wideband option.

Awww...you guys are giving me all the warm fuzzys for similarly ponying up for the wideband CAN module.

Yay for technology!

I held off buying an ECU for over a year waiting for the MS3-Übermensch before deciding to go with the Basic + wideband CAN interface module. After my experience dealing with ground offset issue with my DIYPNP, I regret nothing! Its seriously worth it. If I can make it work, you can make it work.

S/N is 12616

Here is the I/O list I have for the DB 37:
28. A 37-way connector with pigtail is included with your ECU. There are several free- hanging wires on the connector (depending on your request):
• White/Red: Fused 12V power supply for your wideband ONLY. Has an internal 6A fuse.
• Black/Yellow: Ground / Heater ground (for LC-1 widebands)
• Black/Green: Analog sensor ground.
• Yellow - Wideband input. Connect this to your wideband analog output
• Grey – Switchable tables (optional). Connect this to a ground (through an on/off
switch) to switch between VE/Ignition tables.
• Brown – Launch control input (optional). Connect to a ground (through a
momentary switch) to enable launch (when pressed).
• Brown and Green (twisted together) (optional)- Ignition output C (brown) and
ignition output D (green)
• Pink and Violet – Injection output C (pink) (optional) and injection output D
(violet) (90-93 only)
• Pink and White (twisted together) (optional) – Oil pressure input (white;
resistive), oil temperature (pink; resistive). Connect to sensor. The other end of
the sensor goes to ground.
• Violet (purple) (optional; not available on the 01-05 as the signal is already
routed through the stock harness) – VVT control solenoid (negative side) to use on 01-05 engine swaps. The other pin of the valve needs a switched and fused (5A) 12V power supply. The valve does not have a polarity.
• Green - Boost control output. Connect this to a boost control valve. The other wire of the boost control valve needs to be connected to a switched and fused 12V source. A 5A fuse is recommended.
• White (optional; not available on the 99-05 as the signal is already routed through the stock harness) – Knock input. Connect to a knock sensor.
• Red – Datalog start/stop.Connect this to a switched 12V source (through an on/off switch) to start/stop datalogging to the SD card.
• Orange - Free programmable output (Nitrous 2), low side. Can drive any load up to 5A.

Questions:
1) Where do I input the CAN from the Serial to CAN WB interface box?
2) 2nd to last is red wire for momentary contact to start / stop data logging. Is there a companion output to drive (sink) and LED that shows status of logging?
3) I want to us 1 or two other outputs to drive LED's as annunciators. Since I am not planning to use VVT, can I use the purple for that? My thought is to combine AFR Warning and Knock into a single out. Not sure how to do this summing, or if those are possible over at the Advance Engine area. Any help welcome. The other one would be a light that would come on if CLT goes above 235*F.

1) Pins 8 and 9. Pin 8 is CANH (white wire), pin 9 is CANL (black wire).

2) No, you can use another output to do that, for example Nitrous 2 (orange wire).

3) Yes, VVT can be used for that. You can the use the EBC output to drive the same LED.

And to wire the CAN module
 

OK. I will be using EBC for EBC. So, then I'm out of outputs, yes?

On the WB Serial to CAN module, there are also Red and Black. Is Red switched power and Black Ground?

You can add a couple of low power outputs by connecting a couple of wires from the MS3 daughterboard to the DB37 connector. Email me for more info.

Red is 12V, black is ground, correct.

I will, thanks. I will also need some direction on how to ID the I/O's and the parameters I am looking for, as TS does not seem to correlate all parameters, e.g. I know there is a knock annunciator on TS, but how do I map it to the I/O. I will detail the questions in the email.

Love me some MS3Basic

My MS Basis is on the way from Reverent. I am impressed with his level of service and attention to detail for the base tune. The digital wideband option is a nice addition! Amazing level of control and options in such a tidy cost effect package.

Thanks Dimitris!

Just wondering if anyone knows how to feed an aftermarket water temp gauge from a basic ms3, I have a stack gauge I want to use but assume the feed it requires is different to that of that stock gauge so thinking I could feed it something from the MS?

I would imagine you could use one of the spare analog inputs, provided its 0-5v

He wants to power the gauge. The answer is to just run another sensor.

Yes just seems intercepting the stock sensor would be neater.

What does it take to get AC working with the MS3 basic?
Also I read it somewhere but now I can't find it, what do I jump over for a tach signal with MS3 basic?

The A/C works out of the box on all Basic MS3s.

I need to look up your ECU to answer your second question, as I've been strapped down for the last couple of days with a bad back. PM me in a couple of days.

Hmm... AC button doesn't even turn on the second fan. Maybe i need to do more digging into why it's not working. May be bad fuse or relay.

I'll PM you this weekend. Thank you.

Reverant your inbox is full at m.net

My question is how does the wiring differ if you were to run the MS3 parallel with the stock ECU. I'm assuming the stock harness needs to stay plugged into the stock ECU. What gets plugged into the MS3?

The Basic MS3 is not designed to run in parallel, and my recommendation is that you don't do it.

How are NB guys mounting the MS3 Basic? The zip tie approach doesn't seem like a reasonable expectation, and doesn't allow the DB37 connector to be used.

Rev doesn't seem to be answering PM's at this time.

The only viable answer I can find is to make an extension harness ad put it on the passenger side. Doesn't this defeat the purpose of having a plug and play system if you need an external harness? Doesn't the first line in the MS3 Basic description state no cutting or splicing?

<p>&nbsp;</p><p></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Zipties work or some hack up the old stock bracket to support the firewall end.&nbsp; Or some of us have moved on to a fabbed bracket from here; Singular Motorsports Miata ECU Bracket for '99+ for Miata 1999-2005</p><p><img src="http://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/1632x1224/80-sms99ecubracket_b1c78bc3a8df45000ad09f237a14067037 055cf0.jpg" title="" /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p><p>Disclosure: I have an MS2 but the MS3 uses the same bracket.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

That looks like a great option, does it allow access to the DB37?

That bracket looks nice, though I don't remember my MS3 having any mounting holes. Zipties worked fine for me in my '99, and I was able to leave the DB37 connected, without even needing to get a right-angle connector as I'd read I might have to.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1438872847

<p>&nbsp;</p><p></p><p>When you order the bracket you specify using an ecu from MSLabs and they'll include the small &quot;L&quot; brackets to mount the MS2 or MS3.&nbsp; They use the end screw holes of the ecu housing.&nbsp; I have no issues getting to the connectors but haven't had the need once it's in.&nbsp; I used zip ties for over a year with no problems as well...</p><p>With the bracket, it's easier to just drop the unit with the ecu on it if you need to pull the connector. IMO...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

Ah, nice. I've since sold my Miata, but I'm glad there's a proper bracket available now. Zip ties may have worked OK, but I certainly wished I could have mounted my $1000 ECU in a more professional-looking way. Glad that's an option for people now.

My bracket comes in tomorrow. I am hoping it works well for my MS3x.

<p></p><p>In for SWAG...&nbsp; Shocked you didn't have it yet. <img alt="Giggle" src="https://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/gay.gif" style="height:21px; width:15px" title="Giggle" /></p>

<p></p><p>From the Singular website:&nbsp; &quot;For those with REVERENT-built ECUs, a small pair of adapter tabs are necessary to fit the ECU to this bracket. Write in the notes during checkout that you need these and we'll include them.&quot;</p><p>I presently have zip ties, but plan to find a way to use the stock backets mounted to the MS3. I think @18psi did this. Maybe he can post info on how he did it.</p>

I made my own brackets. It's in my build thread somewhere lol. In fact I've done multiple different ms3 mounting approaches.

I really like the singular bracket, but at like 90 bux shipped, it's just too rich for my blood

<p></p><p>Thanks for responding.&nbsp;I mis-understood the pictures as I thought you had moved stock ones over. I guess your pics simply compared your handiwork against a stock unit, which would have been your pattern.</p>

quick testimony

ordered voodoo 2 kit.. went back and forth for months with FM after my voodoo box WOULD NOT WORK. sent box to manufacturer who told me they changed some things and it "should be working now" :sad2:

not bashing FM at all.. they communicated very well and make great products.. but decided they needed to work this out between them and the manufacturer and got a refund for the box, which they processed quickly.

heard through the grapevine about mslabs and sent rev a PM. a few weeks later I get my box in the mail, hook it up, set timing and drive off in a flawlessly running turbo miata. this is as easy as it gets.. super happy with everything.

Reverant; Please clear your inbox, i'm trying to reach you.

PMed back.

Here we go again, Reverant please respond to my pm.

Replied.

Another happy MS3 basic owner! With Reverent's base tune she fired right up without drama.

Thanks Dimitris!

If something doesn't work on a purchased ECU, is there a way of returning it or getting it fixed?

You can always order it through Trackspeed Engineering (a site vendor) if you're concerned about non US. Built by MSLabs, sold by TSE...

ECUs are covered by a 1 year return to base warranty. What is your issue?

Read the whole thread. Nice work. Was curious if you have looked into ionic knock sensing.
Also, if I understand correctly, the only difference between the box for the 1.6 and 1.8 is the basemap, yes?

Yes, we have looked into ionic sensing. It doesn't make sense on a B6/BP as these are low compression engines and the parts and processing needed for ionic sensing are well beyond the budgets of most potential MS3 owners (into the THOUSANDS of dollars).

As for the 1.6-1.8 differences - the 90-93 and 94-95 are the same boxes but have different internal jumper settings. Forget to change one jumper over and you can fry the ECU.

The 96-97 1.8 is an entirely different ECU.

Hi Rev. I sent you a PM yesterday about getting a base map for a 94 miata. Please reply when you have a chance.

Help!!
 

I was reading your previous foroum about you selling upgraded ms2's wondering if you still have any left or how much would it be for an ms3 with the same capabilities as you mentioned

We have stopped producing MS2s of any form (Basic, Enhanced).

The Enhanced MS3 is available if you are interested in the enhanced features (OBD-II, CEL warnings, electric load idle-up, P/S idle-up, etc). It's available for the 90-93 1.6L, 94-95 1.8L and 01-05. It's currently not available for the 96-97 and 99-00.

Hi Reverent, Looking to pull the trigger on another MS3 basic. This time it will be for 95 Miata with M45 SC. Glad to see it's available.

The car car currently has a MS2PNP. It was custom tuned by Andrew a few years back. Would it be possible to carry the tune over from the MS2 to your MS3 basic? From what I recall the spark and fuel tables have same resolution.

Thanks
Tom

Reverant

what happens if you purchase a used mslabs ms3? I recently acquired a turbo kit from a local fellow with the ecu
fron a 94, my car is a 95, will it run or will I have to reload a new basemap?

It will run.

if you have a late '95, you may have to move the tach wire in your harness around. i made a thread about it a while back. otherwise there shouldnt be much difference and should run fine