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Old 04-09-2007, 12:56 PM   #1
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Default Any warnings or advice?

Its almost time for everything to go in. Here's what I have so far: Emanage blue for fuel and timing, 1.8L injectors, begi afpr, etd manifold, enthuza 2.5" exhaust, tsi intakes, devils own wi, boost gauge, a/f gauge, starion intercooler, 1.8L flywheel, 1.8" spec stage 1 clutch. I'm looking for set it at about 8-9 psi. Any suggestions? More psi? Less psi? Also, I'm debating on whether to install the devils own right now, or wait till this setup is tunes, then add it. Also, anyone have a good emanage map for something similar to this setup? I saw a couple on the yahoo group, but since I know a lot of guys on here use the devils own someone might have something better. and last question, thinking about hitting up oldguy for his autotune setup. how would that effect the emanage map and overall performance? from what i've read it has good results, but doesn't hurt to ask more. Thanks!
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Old 04-09-2007, 12:58 PM   #2
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listen for ping, watch the a/f gauge, take logs & tune accordingly.
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Old 04-09-2007, 01:26 PM   #3
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so i feel kinda dumb for asking this, but i've never actually heard what "ping" sounds like. is it pretty distinct? and if i hear it, do I shut off the car immediately retard timing of the emanage and turn on the car to see if the sound is still there?
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Old 04-09-2007, 02:13 PM   #4
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it'll sound like marbles rattling in a coffe can lined with a bit of soft material.

you have a 92 correct? you can watch for fast blips in the oil pressure gauge.

with an intercooler you shouldn't have to retard past 5-6°. Have it retard to that mark, do your tuning and see if you can slowly add one or two degrees back in with the same tune.
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:16 PM   #5
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One more thing... Wideband 02. You say you've got a gauge, but is it a true Wideband or just a Narrowband? It sounds like you're doing everything correct from the start and that's commendable. An AEM or LC-1 is the next ticket. I'm not up to speed on integrating the signal into the EMB though... or even if that's an option.
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:21 PM   #6
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Keep your eyes open for a new differential, when you get everything set up and running. You might just need the upgrade........
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:35 PM   #7
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what happens when the differential goes out or is overpowered? also, is it pretty hard to "upgrade" it? is it just the process of buying a torsen, opening the pumpkin and swapping them out?

and whats the difference between a wideband O2 and narrowband O2? Does that replace the O2 sensor? and I'm guessing i'll need the complimenting gauge for the specific band? And lastly...this kinda sounds like oldguy's autotune. can anyone explain differences?
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:47 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BrillntBlk92 View Post
what happens when the differential goes out or is overpowered? also, is it pretty hard to "upgrade" it? is it just the process of buying a torsen, opening the pumpkin and swapping them out?
the ring gear is only 6" in diameter. it's the weaklink, it will fail eventually. might be on the highway, might be giving it hell. since you put all the extra torque on it, it eventually weakens and teeth eventually break off and lock the gears.

the upgrade is as simple as sourcing a 1.8 rear, driveshaft, stub and half shafts. unbolt the old, bolt in the new. Since the 1.8 rear is a 7" diameter, it makes the ring gear that much stronger....i have yet to hear of breakage in a sub 350rwhp miata.

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and whats the difference between a wideband O2 and narrowband O2? Does that replace the O2 sensor? and I'm guessing i'll need the complimenting gauge for the specific band? And lastly...this kinda sounds like oldguy's autotune. can anyone explain differences?
a lot. a narrowband does not meter the o2 level the exhaust in a linear scale. basically between 13:1 and 15:1 it cannot tell you anything, only really rich, or really lean.

the wideband outputs the o2 levels in a linear scale, so you know exactly what the o2 level in the exhaust is, not a close guess.

depending on the wideband controller you can output to almost any gauge and almost any scale. for example i output to a Autometer narrowband gauge, but it displays the accurate reading in the exhaust.

other controllers might have built in gauges.

then last but not least, the autotune is a function of the EMB, where it uses the WBo2 signal to make adjustments to the EMB.
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Old 04-09-2007, 05:02 PM   #9
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so would it be advantageous to get both olderguys o2 clamp and his autotune? and would they still work if I get a wideband o2? and lastly, adjusting the output reading of the o2 is done by adjusting fuel or timing? or both? sorry for all the questions, I'm kinda nervous this being my first turbo'd car and my only car, so no backup is something goes wrong.
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Old 04-09-2007, 05:28 PM   #10
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yeah the o2 clamp is a must if not using a stand alone EMS.

the autotune also works best with the wbo2....you'll end up with a perfect AFR in boost.

you'll really want to get into a discussion with Bruce about tuning the EMB and his autotune....he still retains quite a bit of good info in his nogin, despite his old age :gay:
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Old 04-09-2007, 05:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
yeah the o2 clamp is a must if not using a stand alone EMS.

the autotune also works best with the wbo2....you'll end up with a perfect AFR in boost.

you'll really want to get into a discussion with Bruce about tuning the EMB and his autotune....he still retains quite a bit of good info in his nogin, despite his old age :gay:
The Autotune has a built in O2 clamp. Monitoring with a WBO2 is recommended to perfect your AFR, but the actual control signal is best from the narrowband.

Even though narrowband AFR gauges aren't all that accurate, the output of the narrowband itself is very definitive at boost friendly AFR's, which is why it is usable to turn fuel on and off with the Emanage at that target voltage.
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Old 04-09-2007, 06:04 PM   #12
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So would you say having a combination of your autotune and a wi system make tuning difficult? and would it be worth having both? or just a waste? and lastly, are you saying its best to have a narrowband o2 with a wideband a/f gauge?
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Old 04-09-2007, 06:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
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So would you say having a combination of your autotune and a wi system make tuning difficult? and would it be worth having both? or just a waste? and lastly, are you saying its best to have a narrowband o2 with a wideband a/f gauge?
The WBO2 is a very good monitoring tool to see that nothing is going wrong and to fine tune your AFR.

WI adds to your ability to run a leaner AFR by providing some of the cooling that you get from the fuel at richer AFR's and allow you to run less retard in the timing. The two can definitely be used together since they do not infringe on each other at all and only serve to enhance each other.
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Old 04-09-2007, 06:20 PM   #14
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Wide band FTW man if you dont have a wide band sensor then you are just geusing
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
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and lastly, adjusting the output reading of the o2 is done by adjusting fuel or timing? or both?
A WBO2 is simply a sensor stuck into the exhaust stream (where it senses the amount of unburned fuel coming out of the engine) and connected to a small processor. The signal from the processor is displayed on a gauge or LED readout. THAT SIGNAL IS SIMPLY AN ELECTICAL VOLTAGE. I think it's usually like 0-5volts.

However, if you also send that signal to eManage, it can see real-time what the A/F is and "autotunes" itself when used with Bruces magic box (or something like that).

Typical SamNavy intelligence insulting lecture:
If you add/subtract fuel at any point in the RPM range, you will run richer or leaner. The way to add/subtract fuel is through injector sizes, fuel pressure, injector pulse length. Since we are ADDING air with the turbo, we must strive to add fuel at an equal rate to keep the A/F ratio in the sweet spot. Around here, I think we tune for about 12:1. We need to run that rich (as opposed to 14.7:1 or STOICH) because the fuel is also a great cooler. As the fuel is atomized in the intake tract, it cools the air... along with an IC or WaterInjection, we can bring the air temps back down after the turbo compresses the air and heats it. Hot intake air will cause detonation (knock) and break your motor. If you run too lean, you also run too hot, and then you knock, and then you walk home.

Anybody, if I'm all F'd up, please correct any of the above.
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