Begi Alpha Omega Bow to Me Peasant
#201
Boost Czar
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Throw some injectors on that kit and that's a pretty potent setup for only 9psi with a chinaturdo.
Regards to 100%DC:
If they were at 100%DC we'd be seeing them running out of fuel at redline. A/F plots I've seen suggest there's still enough fuel up top and it's not leaning out due to too much power and too little fuel delivery.
Lets say you run the setup at 10psi and you start to notice that no matter what you try to do to increase the pulsewidth you go lean at 6700RPM, you know you've hit 100%DC and can no longer supply enough fuel to support the power output.
With that said: Those injectors aren't quite tapped out it seems, but I'd imagine they are pretty close...
Let's find more semantics we can hate on.
FM still sells the Voodoo kit, which runs at 8psi using stock injectors--those ********.
#202
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Reposting for emphasis
Please excuse my incredulity, but I just don't understand. Maybe the problem is me.
#207
Its not that its hard to hear det, its hard to distinguish mild det from all the other nosies the engine is making without some sort of det cans. Its worse on a car with a stock exhaust though. At least with an aftermarket exhaust I know for sure that marbles in a coffee can noise isnt heat shield rattle.
#208
Our altitude is 1100 feet.
When the torque curve starts a downhill run to the redline, less air per putt is actually entering the combustion chamber. If the torque falls 10%, the fuel should do so as well, else the system grows 10% richer. Calculate on the implications of that for a while and see what you get.
That's what the air corrector jet is for.
I've not seen an injector stick open due to high %age duty cycle. I have seen many injectors over 700cc/min jam closed due to fuel pressure.
I can't come up with a reason electrically or mechanically that an injector would be damaged by excessive use at or near 100%. Does anyone know whys or wherefores?
The fact that this car did what it appears to have done does not mean we ship systems suggesting use at the same boost. We will trim it down a notch, but clearly remain in excess of 200 bhp on the stock injectors.
corky
When the torque curve starts a downhill run to the redline, less air per putt is actually entering the combustion chamber. If the torque falls 10%, the fuel should do so as well, else the system grows 10% richer. Calculate on the implications of that for a while and see what you get.
That's what the air corrector jet is for.
I've not seen an injector stick open due to high %age duty cycle. I have seen many injectors over 700cc/min jam closed due to fuel pressure.
I can't come up with a reason electrically or mechanically that an injector would be damaged by excessive use at or near 100%. Does anyone know whys or wherefores?
The fact that this car did what it appears to have done does not mean we ship systems suggesting use at the same boost. We will trim it down a notch, but clearly remain in excess of 200 bhp on the stock injectors.
corky
#210
So, you know they are not at 100%, but you imagine they are not far off of 100%... Which is it? Do you know something or imagine it?
If you know they are not at 100% that means you know what % they are at... doesn't it?
Keith
PS: I know 100% where any new parts I get are not coming from, I imagine that I will be getting them from Flyin' Miata.
If you know they are not at 100% that means you know what % they are at... doesn't it?
Keith
PS: I know 100% where any new parts I get are not coming from, I imagine that I will be getting them from Flyin' Miata.
Inquiring minds need to know.
#212
Let's find more semantics we can hate on.
FM still sells the Voodoo kit, which runs at 8psi using stock injectors--those ********.
FM still sells the Voodoo kit, which runs at 8psi using stock injectors--those ********.
1) their "boost creep" issue you linked to was dopples thread where he mated the newer hotside to the older 2560, resulting in creep
2) they don't claim 230whp, and specifically tell people that it is a 180hp system they're selling.
try again. you might want to call corky and stephanie and get pointers on this stuff.
I suggest we delete everything we've said over the past 10 years on this forum, cause obviously laws of this universe, and mathematics, do not apply
because ALPHAOMEGA?
if the injectors aren't at 100, what are they at?
how was it discovered that the pump is "almost tapped out"?
in for 250whp on stock injectors being the "norm" now.
Last edited by 18psi; 12-10-2014 at 10:15 AM.
#213
Guys to halt the hate parade a little. The is a chance, small as it is, that this is for real and I can explain it.
So like I calculated earlier, they must be hitting at or a little below 0.41 BSFC at redline for this to be working, which means peak torque BSFC is for sure below that number. Now thats not as crazy as you would think. The FM dodoo kit that FM sells as a 180whp (call it 200hp crank) kit, if FM is being safe and limits the injectors to 80% duty cycle like I believe keith has said they did that car is also making ~0.40 BSFC at peak power and must be below that number at peak torque. Sit back and have a thought on this. Without a doubt the BEGI kit is going to have better BSFC performance from the more tubular nature of the manifold, external wastegate, and better intercooler. Even if its hitting the same peak power BSFC numbers as the FM kit that puts the car at about 96% injector duty cycle at peak power if I did my math right. Now what I cant explain is how both FM and BEGI seem to be hitting these really low peak power BSFC numbers, but people who arent shops and tuning with an MS seem to fail to even come close.
So like I calculated earlier, they must be hitting at or a little below 0.41 BSFC at redline for this to be working, which means peak torque BSFC is for sure below that number. Now thats not as crazy as you would think. The FM dodoo kit that FM sells as a 180whp (call it 200hp crank) kit, if FM is being safe and limits the injectors to 80% duty cycle like I believe keith has said they did that car is also making ~0.40 BSFC at peak power and must be below that number at peak torque. Sit back and have a thought on this. Without a doubt the BEGI kit is going to have better BSFC performance from the more tubular nature of the manifold, external wastegate, and better intercooler. Even if its hitting the same peak power BSFC numbers as the FM kit that puts the car at about 96% injector duty cycle at peak power if I did my math right. Now what I cant explain is how both FM and BEGI seem to be hitting these really low peak power BSFC numbers, but people who arent shops and tuning with an MS seem to fail to even come close.
#215
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Datapoint from me.
Couldn't hit 200flywheel HP with 320cc injectors on a MS1, managed about 195fw/hp at 95%DC.
And for the record, I can't hear light det without detcans. Det I can actually hear is that severe it causes missfires. Anyone who claims they can hear det without detcans must have ears like a bat.
Not sure if Brain is being serious, or just trolling.
Couldn't hit 200flywheel HP with 320cc injectors on a MS1, managed about 195fw/hp at 95%DC.
And for the record, I can't hear light det without detcans. Det I can actually hear is that severe it causes missfires. Anyone who claims they can hear det without detcans must have ears like a bat.
Not sure if Brain is being serious, or just trolling.
#216
Datapoint from me.
Couldn't hit 200flywheel HP with 320cc injectors on a MS1, managed about 195fw/hp at 95%DC.
And for the record, I can't hear light det without detcans. Det I can actually hear is that severe it causes missfires. Anyone who claims they can hear det without detcans must have ears like a bat.
Not sure if Brain is being serious, or just trolling.
Couldn't hit 200flywheel HP with 320cc injectors on a MS1, managed about 195fw/hp at 95%DC.
And for the record, I can't hear light det without detcans. Det I can actually hear is that severe it causes missfires. Anyone who claims they can hear det without detcans must have ears like a bat.
Not sure if Brain is being serious, or just trolling.
#220
Retired Mech Design Engr
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For perspective, we all grow and learn, and technologies change. But, I have this trivia question:
Who said this to me on m.net on Aug 8, 2013 (and I am greatful that he did):
"btw, on a 99 with the returnless fuel rail, you'll have a hard time (even with the stock exhaust) providing enough fuel at even 6psi with stock injectors."
Who said this to me on m.net on Aug 8, 2013 (and I am greatful that he did):
"btw, on a 99 with the returnless fuel rail, you'll have a hard time (even with the stock exhaust) providing enough fuel at even 6psi with stock injectors."