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Old 04-25-2008, 06:04 AM   #1
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Default A/F 13.2:1 at WOT

Below 4k my a/f is all wack since I am just running the vortech w/ no bandaids so the stock ecu is messing stuff up, but above 4k I'm in the 13's for a/f. Is that ok?
Stupid question here: if 13.x:1 is not that great, would the same boost level at a good a/f like 12:1 produce more power? Because at 4 psi the car feels like it gets a decent kick in the pants more power than stock. When I turn it up higher, the car realllly doesn't seem to be any faster. I've had it up to about 7 or so... could this just be due to my a/f getting leaner as I add boost and therefore not really adding any more power?
-Ryan
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Old 04-25-2008, 06:45 AM   #2
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Remind me to slap the **** out of you at the next meet. Raising the boost without increasing fuel flow? Come on, Ryan.

No, 13.2:1 is not OK. 13.2:1 is piston-melting territory. You need to be under 12.5, preferrably under 12.0:1. My car is tuned for about 11.4:1.
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:45 AM   #3
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What boost level are you at when your in the 13 af ratio? 4lbs, or 7lbs? if at 4lbs, shouldnt the fmu not cause you to go that lean at 4lbs? There seems to be guys running fine with the fmu at 5lbs.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:52 AM   #4
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If it doesn't knock, it won't break.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:10 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Remind me to slap the **** out of you at the next meet. Raising the boost without increasing fuel flow? Come on, Ryan.

No, 13.2:1 is not OK. 13.2:1 is piston-melting territory. You need to be under 12.5, preferrably under 12.0:1. My car is tuned for about 11.4:1.
am i the only one that gets annoyed as hell when people INSIST that forced induction cars have to run PIG rich all the time? what exactly is "preferable" about running < 12:1? if, as ben mentioned, he's not knocking, what's he gaining by adding more fuel? without sitting on a dyno, there's no way to know if 12.5:1 or 12.0:1 makes more power at any given point in his map. as far as 13.2 goes. are you looking at his EGTs to verify his "piston melting" temps that are clearly destroying his engine right now?

11.4 is ridiculously rich. i'd be really surprised if there are more than a couple spots in your table where you would actually make more power with that much fuel, compared to something a little lighter up in the mid 12's...

sorry to come off like an ***, but it's early and this is a huge pet peeve of mine.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:12 AM   #6
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and, savington, i know you had knocking issues before, but it looks like you found the cause of that with your (intake?) cam being off by a decent amount. you probably don't need NEARLY as much fuel to keep from det'ing, at this point...
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:59 AM   #7
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Add an O2 clamp, and change your disc. (you don't want to be lean under 4K either). You "should" be able to run 6psi of boost w/ the stock FP (80psi). Or look for an BEGI AFPR.

Are you monitoring Fuel pressure as well?
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post

No, 13.2:1 is not OK. 13.2:1 is piston-melting territory. You need to be under 12.5, preferrably under 12.0:1. My car is tuned for about 11.4:1.
11.4 to 1 is way rich. I have my car between 12 to 1 and 12.7 to 1. 13.2 is a little lean, but as long as there is no knock or your EGTs arnt like 2500 degress, your ok lol.
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:45 AM   #9
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11.4 to 1 is way rich. I have my car between 12 to 1 and 12.7 to 1. 13.2 is a little lean, but as long as there is no knock or your EGTs arnt like 2500 degress, your ok lol.
How the **** do you know? Had your car on a load dyno and tuned cell by cell? I ******* have. My car made *more* power when "rich". Take a look at other tuner forums. They run their cars "rich" compared to the miata common "wisdom".

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Old 04-25-2008, 10:48 AM   #10
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lmao, haha "laser".
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ben View Post
How the **** do you know? Had your car on a load dyno and tuned cell by cell? I ******* have. My car made *more* power when "rich". Take a look at other tuner forums. They run their cars "rich" compared to the miata common "wisdom".

this was my point. unless you're on a dyno, you have no idea. that's why, generally, shoot for mid 12's and add if you're knocking is sound advice. get the **** on a dyno and have a way to detect faint knock, if you really want to know what's going on.
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:31 AM   #12
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by devin mac View Post
you probably don't need NEARLY as much fuel to keep from det'ing, at this point...
While I was tuning, it would lean from 11.8 to 12.3, and detonate as soon as it touched 12.3:1.
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:41 PM   #14
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but didn't you have a cam gear off by a couple teeth? or are you talking about since then?
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:54 PM   #15
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but didn't you have a cam gear off by a couple teeth? or are you talking about since then?
This was during the retune. Fixing that issue required me to completely retune both the spark and fuel maps.
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:56 PM   #16
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damn, you got something else going on then... you shouldn't be pinging at 12.3...
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:58 PM   #17
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if timing is aggressive he will
aggressive timing + lots of fuel = powah
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:59 PM   #18
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damn, you got something else going on then... you shouldn't be pinging at 12.3...
Why not? The car would make the most power at 14.7:1, but the extra fuel is used to cool the cylinder. Less fuel to cool, more heat, detonation. This is also at 13-15psi; to be fair, down at 7psi I am able to run it a bit leaner, in the 12.5 range. 13.2:1 is still very, very lean, though; that's what you would aim for in an N/A car.

My timing map is not horridly aggressive, a few degrees beyond Jerry's basemap, but that's on pisswater (CA 91)
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Old 04-25-2008, 01:00 PM   #19
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yeah, but weren't you complaining about a pussbag timing map, as well?
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Old 04-25-2008, 01:02 PM   #20
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Andrew, it absolutely won't make max power at stoich. Tip into boost at 14.7:1, then retune to tip in at 13:1 then let me know which feels more powerful.
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