A/F 13.2:1 at WOT
#22
well, the idea here is that with more air, you can burn more fuel, clearly. but the problem is that the amount of space you're stuffing all the extra air into remains the same, and you have a limited amount of time to make all the combustion happen.
so in a short period of time, you have a very low probability that all the fuel molecules will be next to air molecules required for combustion in the timespan available. you make up for this by adding more fuel, so you increase that probability, with the goal being to use up every last O2 molecule in the chamber. in a n/a motor, you can only get so much in there, so 13.5 is accepted as the ballpark area where you're in the sweet spot between maximizing your chances of leveraging all the O2 molecules, and losing power due to cooler cyls and "crowding" of too many fuel molecules and not enough air (opposite problem of if you injected just enough for stoic). with boost, the tossed around number is 12.5, because at common boost levels, this is probably where people have found that sweet spot to hover around.
in reality, that sweet spot varies with the flow characteristics of your engine, the amount of boost you're running, and the volatility of your fuel.
in any case, the point is that it's POSSIBLE 9though not probable) that a boosted car COULD make max power at 13.2:1 at a given rpm and pressure bin, same way it COULD make max power at 11.4:1. without being on a dyno, you don't know.
so in a short period of time, you have a very low probability that all the fuel molecules will be next to air molecules required for combustion in the timespan available. you make up for this by adding more fuel, so you increase that probability, with the goal being to use up every last O2 molecule in the chamber. in a n/a motor, you can only get so much in there, so 13.5 is accepted as the ballpark area where you're in the sweet spot between maximizing your chances of leveraging all the O2 molecules, and losing power due to cooler cyls and "crowding" of too many fuel molecules and not enough air (opposite problem of if you injected just enough for stoic). with boost, the tossed around number is 12.5, because at common boost levels, this is probably where people have found that sweet spot to hover around.
in reality, that sweet spot varies with the flow characteristics of your engine, the amount of boost you're running, and the volatility of your fuel.
in any case, the point is that it's POSSIBLE 9though not probable) that a boosted car COULD make max power at 13.2:1 at a given rpm and pressure bin, same way it COULD make max power at 11.4:1. without being on a dyno, you don't know.
#23
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Well thanks for letting me know I'm going to blow my motor
I'm itching to get the Megasquirt but don't have the $850 right now for that and the injectors so for the tie being I'm running the vortech. But because I'll be adding that in a short while, I'm not going to waste $$ on an o2 clamp or any other band aids. As of now, I'm monitoring a/f with a AEM UEGO and do not have FP or exhaust temp gauges. I'm just making sure I don't hear ping... I was running a helper spring setup on the wastegate to adjust boost now I'm playing with a MBC so I'll try to get it right on 6 psi...
This intercooler is awesome. I've had the car up to 8 psi and 10* timing with no retard and still not knocked whereas pre-intercooler I knocked at 5 psi and 5* timing. Before I get yelled at I won't be running the 8 psi yet. In all honesty, it didn't feel much faster if at all which was most likely due to the fact that the A/F was so shitty due to no fuel control at that boost.
-Ryan
I'm itching to get the Megasquirt but don't have the $850 right now for that and the injectors so for the tie being I'm running the vortech. But because I'll be adding that in a short while, I'm not going to waste $$ on an o2 clamp or any other band aids. As of now, I'm monitoring a/f with a AEM UEGO and do not have FP or exhaust temp gauges. I'm just making sure I don't hear ping... I was running a helper spring setup on the wastegate to adjust boost now I'm playing with a MBC so I'll try to get it right on 6 psi...
This intercooler is awesome. I've had the car up to 8 psi and 10* timing with no retard and still not knocked whereas pre-intercooler I knocked at 5 psi and 5* timing. Before I get yelled at I won't be running the 8 psi yet. In all honesty, it didn't feel much faster if at all which was most likely due to the fact that the A/F was so shitty due to no fuel control at that boost.
-Ryan
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It's the normal 12:1 disc, stock 1.6 injectors. It just maxes out the fuel pump at 70-80ish psi or whatever so it's flowing everything the system can right now. The 13:2 was with ~7psi tapering off to 6 psi. The last thing I need is a higher ratio disc lol.
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Ben, I'd ask about the theory behind that, but I think devin explained it. I'll have to spend some more time playing with the fuel map and get a few different curves (one at 12.0 dead, one at 11.6, one at 11.4, etc) to play with when I go to the dyno in May. I also am curious to know whether I can lean it out and pick up power with water injection, on the theory that I'm just using the extra fuel beyond X:1 AFRs to cool the charge, and the WI can take that duty over.
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My info may not be entirely accurate for all 12:1 users though as all of our fuel pumps are in different states of degradation and this disc just maxes the pump out to whatever it is capable of.
-Ryan
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Okay, update for those wondering how the stock Vortech FMU works. This is on a 1.6 with the fuel system otherwise stock (1.6 injectors).
Went out today and started messing with the boost. Without the MBC, the lowest I can get the wastegate to adjust down to is 4.5-5 psi, if I lengthen the rod any longer it holds the wastegate door open a small bit all the time and I get like 2 psi at 6k rpm.
So, at that 5 psi, 12.5:1 A/F. All the A/F numbers I'm giving are from 4k rpm and up since below that the stock ecu is just freaking out as I have no o2 clamp or such.
So then I started adjusting the MBC.
6 psi peak, 12.6:1 - 12.7:1
7 psi peak, 12.7:1 - 12.9:1
8 psi peak, 13.1:1 - 13.3:1
I say peak because my boost peaks around 4.5k and then tapers off about 2 psi by redline, even with the MBC in place. Oh well.
So, I've got it adjusted to 7 psi right now. Seems like that is the absolute safe max for stock 1.6 fuel systems with the pump maxed out.
-Ryan
Went out today and started messing with the boost. Without the MBC, the lowest I can get the wastegate to adjust down to is 4.5-5 psi, if I lengthen the rod any longer it holds the wastegate door open a small bit all the time and I get like 2 psi at 6k rpm.
So, at that 5 psi, 12.5:1 A/F. All the A/F numbers I'm giving are from 4k rpm and up since below that the stock ecu is just freaking out as I have no o2 clamp or such.
So then I started adjusting the MBC.
6 psi peak, 12.6:1 - 12.7:1
7 psi peak, 12.7:1 - 12.9:1
8 psi peak, 13.1:1 - 13.3:1
I say peak because my boost peaks around 4.5k and then tapers off about 2 psi by redline, even with the MBC in place. Oh well.
So, I've got it adjusted to 7 psi right now. Seems like that is the absolute safe max for stock 1.6 fuel systems with the pump maxed out.
-Ryan
#34
Hmmm... i don't know about the stock pump maxing out at those boost levels on a 1.6., I've heard of plenty of people running in excess of 200bhp on the stock fuel pump.
My concern would be the injectors, I'm running 5-6psi and the stock injectors are at like 85-90% duty cycle (dyno proven) trying to maitain a 12:1 AFR ratio. I have some 315cc Supra injectors ready to drop in to allow me to run more boost.
Just don't go power crazy and increase the boost to the detriment of your AFR's, the last thing you need is for the engine to go POP!!!!
My concern would be the injectors, I'm running 5-6psi and the stock injectors are at like 85-90% duty cycle (dyno proven) trying to maitain a 12:1 AFR ratio. I have some 315cc Supra injectors ready to drop in to allow me to run more boost.
Just don't go power crazy and increase the boost to the detriment of your AFR's, the last thing you need is for the engine to go POP!!!!
#38
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Hmmm... i don't know about the stock pump maxing out at those boost levels on a 1.6., I've heard of plenty of people running in excess of 200bhp on the stock fuel pump.
My concern would be the injectors, I'm running 5-6psi and the stock injectors are at like 85-90% duty cycle (dyno proven) trying to maitain a 12:1 AFR ratio. I have some 315cc Supra injectors ready to drop in to allow me to run more boost.
Just don't go power crazy and increase the boost to the detriment of your AFR's, the last thing you need is for the engine to go POP!!!!
My concern would be the injectors, I'm running 5-6psi and the stock injectors are at like 85-90% duty cycle (dyno proven) trying to maitain a 12:1 AFR ratio. I have some 315cc Supra injectors ready to drop in to allow me to run more boost.
Just don't go power crazy and increase the boost to the detriment of your AFR's, the last thing you need is for the engine to go POP!!!!
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