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Old 01-05-2013, 02:29 AM   #1
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Default Finally installing my turbo after sitting in the box for a year...need advice

Finally back,

Bought the kit 1.5 years ago, BEGI took 6 months to get the kit to me and well life caught up and next thing i knew it the box sat in my garage for another year -_-

Piecing back what I remember back then and what I intended to do. I have questions about the installation and tuning.

Stock 1996 Miata 1.8L installing
BEGI-S w/ 2860RS Garret w/ SS lines w/ Megasquirt w/ o2 bung

First off the installation is frustrating:
O2 sensor removal - FAIL - I ended up disconnecting it and removing the O2 sensor connected to the entire downpipe.
1st question:
I bought a Innovation LC-1/DB gauge...I believe I can plug the LC-1 wideband O2 sensor to the O2 bung > connect to the megasquirt and forget the stock O2 sensor ever existed?

Removal of the EGR tube and reconnecting to turbo manifold - WANTED TO QUIT

Got the manifold, turbo and down pipe "on" but needed to tighten the bolts.
2nd question:
Regarding the 4 studs + 10mm nuts connecting turbo to manifold. The stud closet to the down pipe.
Is there some trick to tightening that nut? Once you slide the stud into the turbo there's like barely no clearance for the nut...so do have to start threading the nut before you push into the stud all the way?
In addition, that particular area is ridiculously cramp, the nut requires a "big" 17mm wrench and well that's wrench barely gets a grab on it.
In addition, the angle to get the wrench seems near impossible...let alone to get any good exhaust system torque on it.
Any advice on that fastening that nut?
I figure I'll eventually semi torque it down but worry it'll loosen out on me later on.
I read some people cut the stud shorter, or use 12-point nuts instead

Tomorrow, I'll attempt to tighten the turbo to manifold fasteners first before attempting to connect it to the downpipe.

3rd Question:

I bought the 2860RS Garret
I got a HKS BOV and CX Racing Intercooler on hand.

Honestly, I just want the car up and running/boosting before I commit the BOV and Intercooler....less strain on my stock clutch

Can I run a low boost pressure system for now, then transition to BOV/Intercooler/Clutch upgrade later for higher boost?
I had conversation with Corky 1.5 yrs ago and he mentioned something about the 2860 turbo probably needs a minimum X boost pressure to ensure that the backpressure does not exceed the inlet pressure that could potentially spool the turbo reverse.

Thanks
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:15 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2kmiata View Post
1st question:
I bought a Innovation LC-1/DB gauge...I believe I can plug the LC-1 wideband O2 sensor to the O2 bung > connect to the megasquirt and forget the stock O2 sensor ever existed?
Yes you can do that. My stock o2 sensor has been sitting on a shelf since my install. You can always use one of the outputs of the wideband as a narrow-band o2 sensor if you need to hook the stock ecu back up later too (although I'm not sure what all the stock ecu "wants" to see as far as o2 wiring goes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by s2kmiata View Post
2nd question:
Regarding the 4 studs + 10mm nuts connecting turbo to manifold. The stud closet to the down pipe.
Is there some trick to tightening that nut? Once you slide the stud into the turbo there's like barely no clearance for the nut...so do have to start threading the nut before you push into the stud all the way?
In addition, that particular area is ridiculously cramp, the nut requires a "big" 17mm wrench and well that's wrench barely gets a grab on it.
In addition, the angle to get the wrench seems near impossible...let alone to get any good exhaust system torque on it.
You might be able to start the nut before installing the stud, but an easier/better way would be to put the turbo onto the studs then pull it back off 1/2" or however far is necessary to get that nut started. Then put the other nuts on the remaining three studs.
For tightening if it's a 17mm I'd use something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-816...9WY?tag=vig-20

Or maybe this (although I'm willing to bet there's not enough clearance for the box end of the wrench, much less the ratcheting end):
Amazon Amazon

Nice part about the 2nd one is you can swing the box end out of the way, for an even stubbier 17mm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s2kmiata View Post

3rd Question:

I bought the 2860RS Garret
I got a HKS BOV and CX Racing Intercooler on hand.

Honestly, I just want the car up and running/boosting before I commit the BOV and Intercooler....less strain on my stock clutch

Can I run a low boost pressure system for now, then transition to BOV/Intercooler/Clutch upgrade later for higher boost?
I had conversation with Corky 1.5 yrs ago and he mentioned something about the 2860 turbo probably needs a minimum X boost pressure to ensure that the backpressure does not exceed the inlet pressure that could potentially spool the turbo reverse.

Thanks
I've never heard of anything like a minimum boost requirement or turbines running backwards because of it in the 12+ years I've been playing with/discussing turbocharger systems. Maybe it's possible what he said was mis-interpreted?
Supposedly the creator of the 2860 Jay Kavanagh said something like "running a GT2860 below 12psi is just wrong". That being said it'll work, but why skimp when you're this close already? It's sat for a year, if you need a break take a few days then finish it up right. It's also possible/probable you won't be able to run under 9-10 psi anyways if it's using an internal wastegate.
At the absolute minimum I'd get the BOV working since not having it installed puts additional strain on your compressor fins when abruptly snapping the throttlebody closed under positive pressure conditions.

It sounds like you might not have some of the supporting mods (aftermarket clutch, built internals) to really utilize the 2860, it might be worth considering selling/trading it for a 2560.

Last edited by SJP0tato; 01-05-2013 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:14 AM   #3
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Oh yea I remember the manual mentioned simulating a narrow band O2.

Spent the whole day trying to install the turbo, manifold, downpipe assembly.

Well, we got the turbo onto the manifold with all 4 nuts tightened, but could not get the downpipe on. Hammered the region to get more space but still not have enough room to slip the downpipe on. We kept bumping into that large hose next to the EGR tube and the studs off the turbo...just too cramped.

bought a real hammer and a saw.
It seems the stub off the turbo>downpipe are 'longer' then they 'need' to be. My plan is the cut/shorten the stubs but still enough to fully tighten the nuts and additionally cut/hammer the work region for more space.

Still haven't found a good tool to tighten that difficult "manifold>turbo stud" just in case the nut loosens out overtime...maybe grind the edge off the opened end stubby wrench. The thought of removing the downpipe everytime i need to tighten that one nut is not comforting.

I decided to install the intercooler and BOV now and go easy on my clutch until I find an upgrade.

I am not sure how ambitious I will be with turboing, so I purposely bought a oversize turbo to allow room for growth, expecting to under utilize it early on.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:03 AM   #4
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Until you get the megasquirt running good disconnect the wastegate from the flapper so u're not spooling.

Make sure you calibrate the lc1 properly and its located in front of the cat, not where the stock o2 sensor goes.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:07 PM   #5
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Have you addressed the oil and water lines yet?
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:30 AM   #6
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Failed again, I got everything in but the downpipe butts right up against the heater return line. The return line appears not flexible at all, let alone in the direction I want to bend it in. This 2860 just seems too fat for that space.

BEGI says remove the return line hose from the firewall, cut it a lil shorter and reconnect. We didnt try it because it looks like the downpipe touched right when the heater hose clamps onto the return line.

We've been yanking that heater return line so much, I'm worried i damaged the seal/o-ring. Anyone know if I can remove that return line completely?

Read up on the cooler reroute.
Thinking I could cut the return line and run a new heater hose line around the entire manifold back to the firewall. Still concerned about possible oring damage.

I have an extra bung on the downpipe for the wideband.

I unfortunately lost the 1/8 BSPP>NPT oil sender adapter and buyin one from mcmaster soon. We bolted the turbo and prerouted the water/oil lines.

Will dc the wastegate for now till I get that LC-1 in.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:13 AM   #7
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unbolt it from head, and it pulls right out of the mixing manifold.

you can bend it back out away from the manifold once removed.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:58 PM   #8
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Order an Inconel stud kit from us now. It's far easier to install when everything is new and fresh, and the nuts included with our kit are 15mm heads, not 17mm.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:39 AM   #9
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You want the inconel studs.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:57 AM   #10
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Anyone know what size the 5 studs are that go into the turbo (downpipe side) for a 2554?
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Anyone know what size the 5 studs are that go into the turbo (downpipe side) for a 2554?

8mmx1.25 I believe. The length depends on your downpipe.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:28 PM   #12
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I use these and they work very well for fitting in tight spots like the manifold. Before I purchased those I ground down one of my extra wrenches. I later also found a set of super cheapo china wrenches that had small thin heads in my misc wrench bag that worked even better because they were shorter and fit better in small spaces. I'll take pictures later and put them in my build thread.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:32 PM   #13
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Lately, its get dark and cold too fast in Socal to get any work done on the weekday evenings.

That heater return line got so frustrating that we cut it off with a dremel :(
added a U-Turn heater house on the leftover line > copper pipe > another heater hose around the air filter to the firewall.

It solved a lot of clearance issues, i only hope the it doesn't leak since the hose to pipe connections aren't flared out on the pipe ends. We double clamped each transition point though.

Ran into a lot of setbacks, appreciate any advice.

1. Started the electrical work until I discovered my DB-Blue gauge wiring harness is missing, minor setback. I'll call Innovate tomorrow maybe they sell misc parts at their HB store.

2. Could not get that HKS SSQV C-ring on with a set of curved pliers. I'll looked for the actual C-ring tool tomorrow....unless someone got a better idea? Seems you gotta muscle your way through it with a couple extra hands -_-

3. Somehow i pulled the SSQV sensing adapter right off the housing when I was test fitting it to some hose lines, is that suppose to happen?....there is no threading on the adapter at all so I'm thinking I'll have to reseal it somehow now?

4. I tapped into a vacuum line off the throttle body for the Megasquirt MAP. I'm wondering can I tee off that same line for my BOV and boost gauge? Or I need a dedicated line for those. If so any ideas?

5. Was going to install the intercooler + airbox now but discovered there's no clean shot to the IC unless I pass above the radiator....or I remove the driver side cooling fan for a better gap. I heard that the fan only engages when the car is stop, but don't know the validity of that statement, any opinons?

At this point, the cars been down almost 3 weeks. I just want it get it up with the AFR tuned and worry about add ons later.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:37 PM   #14
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Here's a pic of the progress so far.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Order an Inconel stud kit from us now. It's far easier to install when everything is new and fresh, and the nuts included with our kit are 15mm heads, not 17mm.
nothing like holding a pair of fresh TSE nuts in your hand
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:32 PM   #16
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i feel like the intake pipe needs to be flipped around.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2kmiata View Post
4. I tapped into a vacuum line off the throttle body for the Megasquirt MAP. I'm wondering can I tee off that same line for my BOV and boost gauge? Or I need a dedicated line for those. If so any ideas?
According to FM for a 96 the MS MAP signal + boost gauge should come from the middle port, and the BOV should come from the throttle-body port. Page 41 here: http://flyinmiata.com/support/instru...all_turbos.pdf
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:47 PM   #18
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the picture is missing the elbow connecting the bov to the compressor inlet.

I'll orient the intake at the 6 oclock when I install the intercooler.

Thanks, that's a pretty good manual, i'll use definitely one of the lines mentioned.

At first glance, I could not find the ECU ground near the rear of throttle body for the LC-1. It was getting cold outside fast...it seems the previous owner did some "minor" electrical work and possibly moved the ECU ground? I assume i'll find it eventually.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:51 PM   #19
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its important you put the MS MAP sensor on the port they describe, the TB ports are turbulent.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:26 PM   #20
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installing a propsport boost gauge and the wiring instructions threw me off.
Red: 12V constant power (power all the time)
Orange: Headlight/taillight power (only power when lights on)
White: 12V ignition power (power with key)

Anyone know a convenient under the dash power source I can tap into for these?
For 12V ignition "white" research says I can either tap into the blue connector near the driver headlight or the connector underneath the shifter. I'll do the shifter route

As for red I cant think of any other lines.
Research says the dimmer switch power line, but i think that's just another ignition power.
Some say the ECU power, makes sense....but no idea where that would be under the dash.

And orange
I'm guessing i find the direct power supply line for the headlight and splice it?...hoping there's a convenient wire under the dash

Thoughts?
If i can figure it out i guess i'll just wire all the powers together -_-

Last edited by s2kmiata; 01-18-2013 at 04:27 PM. Reason: forgot
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