Getting around 200rwhp to 230rwhp?
 

Hey guys. I'm new to the forum, and just thought after I did some searching I would get a few things cleared up. I plan on purchasing the FM II turbo kit. I don't have ANY experience with turbos or tuning, so bear with me. From what I've searched, the FM II turbo kit can be optioned out to get rid of the electronics. With that said, I would option in the 550cc injectors, GT2560R turbo, install a 2.5 inch exhaust from Enthuza, and then purchase a megasquirt for the engine management. With the proper tune, would I be able to safely run around 8psi to 10psi and produce 200 - 230rwhp with a setup similar to this?

You can use the Megasquirt with the Voodoo kit. You basically remove everything electrical that you will add with the Voodoo kit and install the Megasquirt. Everything mechanical stays. The better way to do things is the get the Megasquirt now, and learn to tune it while naturally aspirated. Then get a FMII no electronics kit down the road after you get the hang of tuning.

Ahhh thank you! So I can use the megasquirt on a naturally aspirated car? I wasn't aware of that. What kind of tuning can be done on a N/A car?


Now that I think about it, maybe I will piece together my own turbo setup. From searching some more, apparently its very possible to piece together your own turbo setup for much less money than these complete kits. If thats the case, what exactly would I need to piece together my own? I would say that an ideal budget would be around $2.5k to $3k for the turbo setup (not including clutch or radiator).

Careful, you're about to upset some people.
Nobody is going to be able (or be willing) to tell you exactly what to buy for your particular setup.
I wouldn't say it's possible to do it much more cheaply than a kit unless you really know what you are doing.
In the interest of our time and yours, please spend a lot of time reading on this forum and looking at build threads (there are many) before asking questions that have been answered over and over (for free).
This will not only help keep the forum uncluttered, it will help you learn much more about your car and how to do things properly.
The best way to search the forum is to use goodle. Type in miataturbo.net followed by whatever it is you are looking for.
For instance, you might start with miataturbo.net banhammer.

scratch the 550's and go FlowForce 650. much better injector.

To max out a stock motor between 220-240whp on the NA/NB miata plan on spending between $3000-$4000 by the time it is all said and done.

Follow these 5 steps to properly and reliably boost your miata.

1. ECU and wideband. Megasquirt is the standard, but other standalone will work. Budget between $800-$2000. Install it in your stock car and learn to tune.
2. Larger injectors. Flow Force are the ones you want to buy. Budget $300 for them. Retune after installing them.
3. Stronger clutch. FM/ACT/949Racing are the only clutches you should be looking at. Budget between $300-$500.
4. Figure out your IC fitment and piping. Doing this before the turbo hardware makes the actual turbo install later much easier. Budget between $250-500.
5. Install quality turbo hardware. TSE/MKTurbo/FM/Artech/Begi. Any of those brands provide quality hardware at various costs and options. Plan on spending between $1500-$5000 on all this.

What Lars said!^

I got my MS and Wideband a year early, tuned the car and was quicker on track than stock NC's. I did make more power and saw the results of my tuning without having to worry about boost.
The approach Lars is suggesting is nice because you're not changing everything at once.
If you put on 1 thing at a time, then if failure occurs, you'll know where it's coming from. No guessing game.
I suggest you go and read the megasquirt thread on this forum. I did this and at the beginning, I didn't understand what was being said or what was going on. You can download the free version of tunerstudio and play with the software.
By seeing the frequently asked questions by noobs, and how people were problem solving(using datalogs and such) I was much more prepared when I installed my megasquirt.

Basically,
Read lots,
Do 1 thing at a time,
Enjoy boosting.

Thank you very much guys! I'll go and read some more and see if I have any other questions. As for boosting, I keep going back and forth on my choices; now I'm thinking the FM Voodoo II that makes around 185-200rwhp (claim by FM) would be ideal for me. I'm guessing with a 2.5" exhaust and better injectors I can get in the ballpark of 220rwhp with the Voodoo II. I want something that will give me an extra bit of power, but still keep similar engine reliability as my N/A miata, and I think the Voodoo II may be the ticket.

You won't get those numbers with a VoodooII. The limiting factor is the voodoo box for fuel, and whatever they use for spark. They use stock injectors and those tend to max out around 180whp.

If you want proven reliability, then FM is the way to go. If you want simplicity and affordability, then go with MKturbo.
The difference is FM costs more and spoonfeeds you all the parts you'll need.
MKTurbo gives you the big hardware pieces, and you need to assemble the rest(injectors, fuel management, piping, blow-off etc...)

I went with a no electronics kit and GT2560R. Running an MS2Enhanced and Deatschwerks 700CC injectors.
Do your reading, check what parts fit your needs, what your budget is....

You can only have 2 out of the three, reliable, fast or cheap.

I helped a friend install a FMII Hydra Nemesis a couple weeks back. If you are willing to spend the money it's a really nice kit. I personally dislike the Hydra though but that may have more to do with me being more comfortable with Megasquirt than Hydra.

I don't recommend the "band aids" like the Voodoo II. Go Hydra, Megasquirt, or other full featured ECU.

Get it running on a MS. Then get the MK Turbo setup. Shuiend gave you a perfect road map. Listen to experience.

Thanks everyone! I'm going to go with what you guys said in here and probably get the megasquirt, learn it, then get the FM without electronics or the MKTurbo.

This should be a sticky

MiataMan00,
Curious as to why you crossed out Begi?

We are going Trackspeed, so it doesn't matter so much to our application, but I am curious as to your thoughts.
Pm me if discussions like that are taboo.

From one noob to another- you seriously need to read and research. Everything you're asking has been answered here. It will be overwhelming, you won't absorb it all at once.

That said- people love to tell you to read, but don't usually tell you where to start. I will.

- Go to Meet and Greet, read the stickied noob thread. Twice. I see that you've created a thread there- good start. The thread is... lacking. Post pictures of the car, your goals, some info about yourself, etc. This forum is full of great guys that are super-smart, and sometimes act like assholes when they're pestered for dumb stuff. Stay on the right side of them and do things the right way, they'll bend over backwards for you when you really need it. At least some of them.
- Go to the other forums, and read the other stickied threads. All of them.
- Go to the Builds section. Find guys that are starting with a similar car to yours, and devour what's there.
- Learn to be a search ninja, and search exhaustively before posting any questions.

shuiend gave you the best advice you'll ever get. Put in a WBO2 and AFR gauge, get an MS3X and learn to tune (or buy the PNP2 that I foolishly bought so I can upgrade to MS3X), then get the FF640 injectors and tune for them. Don't even waste time thinking about what turbo setup you're going to use until you've completed this. You don't know enough to make those decisions yet.

I've been at this for 6 months. I've completed a million supporting mods and acquired a MS and injectors, still haven't installed it. This is a journey, but a well-traveled one.

Good luck!

Its pretty simple really. They have terrible costumer service. They take forever to return phone calls/emails, and take forever to ship items. And offer a mediocre product. I have never had first hand experience with them because I have avoided them at all costs. EO2K can chime in if he sees this.

TSE is the way to go. Its what I have.

Thanks MiataMan00

I have a master build sheet for the car that is now pages of hard parts and details...The vast majority of the hard parts will come from Trackspeed or 949.
Every interaction from both has been straight forward and on point....Zero BS!
I couldn't be happier.

I would prefer to buy a complete long block from Trackspeed, but by the time it gets here it will cost well over double what you would pay for it in the lower 48....
It just gets painful for my kid who is working day and night to make this happen.
I have a pro builder here, that has given me perfection every time....Still I am thinking I want somebody that speaks BP to work and build the head...The kid may have to take that bullet :)

Cheers,

Jamie

I don't know CDN law, but I have heard of people shipping US products to a place close to the border (or in your case across the straight) and picking it up to bring home themselves to save a good bit of money. I'm not Canadian, and I don't know anything about bringing stuff from the US, but that could be an option.

I have done this with several of my customers. So far none of them have had issues with it.

OP, for your goals I'd look at mkturbo. I think he even has full kits now.

The guy who runs it is a stand up bloke.

I think that is technically called "smuggling". :)

--Ian

​​​​​​​No full kits yet. Sometime in the near future for certain years.

I will say, whether its by coincidence or planned, that 1500$ for a hotside kit is an extremely good idea. It's a big enough kit where it reduces individual purchasing of items opposed to say just a manifold+ down pipe, but it's price low enough where people who want to turbocharge their cars, while on a budget, won't be afraid of an upfront cost that big.

We are all ready doing this...Every little bit helps!
Thank you though!

It's not smuggling, it's avoiding the huge, marked-up brokerage fees and the cut UPS/USPS likes to take from those fees. You still declare it and pay tax, but it's cheaper.
Also, Our Canadian Peso is not the same as the great big US Doll-Hair you guys have.. Everything americano is super expensive right now.
I'm even afraid to order an americano at starbucks it's so bad.

Yup!
UPS and the "brokerage fees"really screw us over.
Anything with not made in the USA gets another big stupid tax on it.
We are the USA's largest single supplier of oil, yet our fearless leader just cut our throats and basically shut down that entire industry.
Despite our otherwise solid economy our dollar followed suit.

I think my son said Exidas, with the coax mounts direct shipped the old school way are $3500.00 landed here.
I asked if Emilio was slipping in a few of those amazing California gummy bears, alas the answer was no! :)
Sigh!

There was a specific price point I was looking to hit when I initially started designing and building my setups. I had spent 10 years watching the market, so I knew what was out there, what was missing, and what people were willing to pay.

Shuiend,
I was on ebay last night and spotted a $99.00 tubular manifold....Those things must last all of 5 minutes.
I looked around and it seems to be how the ebay elcheapo kits are going now.....there are going to make a lot of sad customers.

Thats how the eBay turbo setups for the miata have always been. Cheap pieces of shit with manifolds made with metal that is to thin to actually last. The only company that makes something somewhat ok is the newer CXRacing kit, but it needs a lot of work to even get it close. The goal was to produce something that is good for the stock motor, be reliable on the street, and make it so you are not going back later to add on exhaust parts.

At least they no hit block!

After searching around a bit more, I think I'm going to go with either the Voodoo II or MKTurbo if I decide to turbo the Miata. Reason being because I'm not looking to go too crazy, just want a little extra umph. I know I originally said I wanted around 200 to 230whp, but honestly, I'd be fine with even 150 to 190whp. If I went with the MKTurbo setup, what else would I need?


Hmm...or maybe a supercharger...

Around here man you should always pause before asking anything resembling "what would I need?" And ask yourself, "Have I searched for this answer on my own?"

I bought a Voodoo II kit to get started and (just like everyone here told me) the Voodoo piggyback ECU sucked. My 1.8 on stock injectors pulled 174WHP on the dyno. The great thing about the kit is that the parts are all high quality, same stuff that's in the FMII kit minus a couple things. If I had it to do over again I would have bought the FMII no-electronics kit AFTER I'd learned how to tune a standalone. I'm learning that now aand it's kind of been a steep learning curve for me, and now it's getting warmer outside and I'm ready to riiiide but I can't. My $.02

Thanks! I'll have to keep on searching then. Just curious though, what was it about the voodoo piggyback that sucked? From my perspective, on many other forums people seem to run it and like it just fine.

Oh, how was it having a 174whp miata? :D

It was not always bad, just not nearly as smooth as I hoped it would be. My biggest problem with it was that I couldn't get it to idle properly on startup. It would lean out multiple times for the first 69 seconds and no amount of fiddling with the few controls it has would amount to much. Also, about every 10th or 12th time I fired it up, it just wouldnt work, so when i went into boost it wouldn't add fuel, which is obviously not a good thing. Sometimes I'd be driving down the road and would just kill the engine and restart it and it would work fine again. And believe me, I went through the wiring a hundred times to make sure it wasn't user error, and even had a tuning shop go over everything to make sure it wasn't my fault.

Apart from that, 174whp is fun in a Miata. But not as much fun as 275whp.

mabe I'm spoiled. But I'm not sure I could live with a sub 200whp miata.

Oh wow that doesn't sound like it was too fun to deal with. Thats unfortunate for it being from flyin' miata which is such a great company.

[QUOTE =MiataMan00;1400926]make I'm spoiled. But I'm not sure I could live with a sub 200whp miata.[/QUOTE]

I think you may be a little spoiled lol. ;) Every car I've had so far has had below 200whp...well, except for my BMW 328xi, that had somewhere in the 200+whp, but then again the car was heavy...and automatic. :bang:

I'm not sure I could live with a sub-300rwhp Miata. How do you guys manage it? :)

--Ian

I'm not a big tech guy like a lot of the guys on here but I will share my experience.

When I bought my 2005 NB2 it already had a Voodoo II kit on it with Borla muffler and stock mid pipe.

I didn't have it on a dyno with that setup but I'd guess it was in the 170-180whp range.

I know a lot of guys dog the Voodoo II box as being a band aid and I'm not trying to argue with that, but if it's a street car and 150-170whp are you goals the Voodoo II kit is excellent.

If I didn't know it was an aftermarket kit I would have sworn it was oem. My car ran perfectly. Perfect idle, smooth power delivery and no issues under any load or with A/C on.

I have since upgraded to full FMII with Hydra 2.7 but if I wasn't looking for more power I would have left the Voodoo II and been happy.

It doesn't matter how much hp the car is making. If the voodoo can't compensate with fuel and ignition then your engine will blow up.

Fair enough but you make it sound like it's going to blow any minute running anything other than a stand alone. That's not true.

What about the massive number of cars over the years running superchargers and turbos with these "band aids" that go for years and thousands of miles with no issues?

I know a bunch of guys that have had cars without a stand alone ecu for years that have never had an issue.

ECU, Wideband, Injectors, IC setup, intake, and a clutch. All that will get you to about the max of a stock motor. But all that stuff is what is needed no matter what turbo hardware you need.

Depending on what year car you have I might have some more products soon that encompass everything you need, for a price that will be very competitive with the Voodoo system.

My suggestion for you, is to listen to our suggestions.

Megasquirt + Whatever no-electronics kit you choose.

At that point, you can run stock injectors, and leave room for you to upgrade slowly towards better and greater power goals.

My main focus when I gathered my parts was reliability, and upgradeability. I went with an FM kit no electronics, 700cc injectors, GT2560R. I know it fits, I know it's proven.

I went back and looked and in post 6 I explain everything he needs to do.

It only takes once when the piggyback stops working and you have no compensation whatsoever, just like archevig had.
I personally know of a guy who blew up his fresh voodoo kit car after a week. Now he's rolling with an ms3 basic. Forums are loaded with blown up piggyback cars, so there are two sides to the story here.

Fair enough.

Thanks! I have a 2001 with the VVT...any plans for a more complete kit? Also, is it possible to order your kit without the exhaust? I would like to use my current 2.5" setup if I go turbo.



And on a side note here, from what it looks like most of you guys here don't like the Voodoo II. However, when I read over at other forums, people rave over that setup. :confused:

Please see post#42 above. Literally on the same damn page.

Yes thank you sherlock I saw that already hence its quoted in my last post.

NB2 IC piping is mostly done. I need to test a few more things. I only sell my setup as all or nothing. My down pipes don't hook up to any other exhausts on the market, and 3" does make a noticeable difference over 2.5" for spool and power.


We are not a fan of voodoo or any other piggy backs because they have limited use. Once you get the power bug you tend to want more then what you start with. That means you need to sell what you have and upgrade to proper engine management. You will find that what you had spent on the fuel and spark piggy backs is just about what it costs to get into a standalone so you are wasting money in our minds.

Also, other forums tend to do a lot more coddling and telling people what they want to hear.
This forum is for grownups.

And cats.
​​​​​​​https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...01850f0ea9.jpg

Amen, this is me, spent $$ on the Voodoo because it was "cheaper" than going full turbo and standalone at the same time. And I was too impatient to go standalone first, learn it, and THEN go turbo. So I've spent lots of money and kept myself behind the learning curve. Buy the standalone first, you choose which.

​​​​​​​Danger to manifold.

The sensible Miata owner.

The incorrigible Miata owner! :)
I think I belong in this club...

Vehicle weight matters a lot more than we give it credit in relation to power goals on the Miata.
We have been wanking my son's car harder than porn stars, and while doing that have been removing unnecessary street comforts.
The car is already down to 2050 pounds and it still has a full interior...give or take, and a half tank of fuel.
Our weight goals, factoring in what others have done, comes out to 1855 pounds when complete. A roll bar has to be factored in so 1950 pounds give or take.

Compared a stock weight and the 1950 # car, the stock car needs another 60hp to match the lighter car.
Put another way a stock car with 300hp goes about the same as a1950# 240hp car...Of course the stock car has an additional piano in the trunk where it comes to going around corners .
On the other hand the lightweight car leaves blisters on your a$$ and bleeding ears! :)

Food for thought if you have a weak a$$ car :)

Here is some food for thought. I'm about to commit heresy on the MT.net site.

You've already surmised that to do the turbo right, you need a lot of supporting stuff that costs $, and has a distinct learning curve. I was in the same place. So I wanted to really take my time and learn it right, and buy the stuff over time rather than all at once, but still have some power along the way.

In this case, a Jackson M45 supercharger kit is not a bad way to get started. This is my plan, and I'm happy with it so far.

These kits can be found with band-aid fuel/timing solutions for $1200, and can get you to 135-150hp at the wheels without needing all the other stuff. I installed a WBO2 and boost gauge and went this route; it gives 6-7psi of boost, and AFR's are right where they should be, my motor has never been healthier.

You can then proceed with all the stuff you would need for the turbo anyway. but do it at your own speed and learn as you go.
- Megasquirt
- injectors
- clutch
- intercooler

When you're done with this, sell the supercharger kit for about what you bought it for, and buy the MKTurbo kit for about the same money.

A properly built 1.8 can get you that naturally aspirated. Friends don't let friends supercharge 1.6's.

It would suck to go to the time and effort to supercharge a 1.6 and still get schooled by a pimply-faced kid in his mother's beige Toyota Sienna minivan.

A properly built 1.8 that'll do M45 supercharger numbers is going to cost a lot more than that M45 will.

That's not to say I support buying an M45 -- those blowers are too small even for a 1.6. Power is addictive, and I've never met anyone who put a blower/turbo/etc on his car and didn't want to bump the power just a bit more after a while. With the M45 that's it, you're done, you have to throw it away to get more. MP62 is a more reasonable idea.

--Ian

Don't know anything about them personally, but have seen these pop up in a few facebook miata groups for injectors.


Looks like another group offering a mustang injector clip. The bp 1.8 drag car they have on the page is pretty cool!

Edit: weird... link won't show.

facebook(dot)com/KAinjection/