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M-Tech Turbo conversions and ME221 shadyness

 
Old 06-20-2018, 07:52 AM
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Question M-Tech Turbo conversions and ME221 shadyness

In the UK we suffer from shipping costs. I would love an MKT, TSE or even a BEGI to stick on my car but with an absence ofauthorised dealers its slim pickings.
The easiest to find and are listed below.
  • Skuzzle Motorsport - widely known on MX5nut as good but I've read about someone there not understanding the MS ECU system and bypassing it to get things running.
  • M-Tech - widely known on MX5nutz for doing good work but again I've read (in the same thread as above) some design plagiarism and whilst I realise Motorsport Electronics was formed after these events it is souring. They are only down the road from me and supply G19 hardware (just closer).
  • Black Cat Motorsport - not found anything bad but it is DIY and find a tuner.
  • G19 Engineering - Widely known on MX5nutz for being good and prolific in conversions. Same kit as the M-Tech company but different fitters.
I've had my car for 16 years and done everything myself so I'm not shy with a spanner although i am slow.
I'd love to get the back on boost but am worried. I'm still running my Emerald K3 ECU and Innovate wideband so I don't need the tuning extras too.
I even considered the <hushed tone>IRTB route</hushed tone> with Blink Motorsport as they have rave reviews.

Has anyone got hands on recent experience with any of these here?
Whilst history can point to form please steer away unless recent.

Last edited by rrjwilson; 10-23-2018 at 09:33 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old 06-20-2018, 10:15 AM
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No experience with any of the above, I would suggest you look into a kraken manifold/downpipe setup, solid parts, great quality, he is in EU and great prices.

he has setups available for t25, td04 and EFR turbos.

find him on Facebook. KRAKEN
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Old 06-20-2018, 10:57 AM
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Skuzzle appear to be very very busy at the moment, so you may have a wait to get booked in with them.

MTech may refuse to map your Emerald to suit, which kind of defeats the point of using them in the first place. They told a friend of mine to send his MSLabs ECU back for a refund as 'it will break on the dyno' and to buy an ME221 instead, without disclosing that ME is their sister company, which is a bit off :(

Fitting a turbo kit isn't that complex if you are handy with the spanners, I'd say get the bits from G19 / Kraken etc, DIY and find another tuner to set it up for you - drive it gently down to see Dave Walker and get the master to set it up!
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jonboy View Post

MTech told a friend of mine to send his MSLabs ECU back for a refund as 'it will break on the dyno' and to buy an ME221 instead, without disclosing that ME is their sister company, which is a bit off :(

!
WOW!!

What a bunch of shady scumbags.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
MTech may refuse to map your Emerald to suit, which kind of defeats the point of using them in the first place. They told a friend of mine to send his MSLabs ECU back for a refund as 'it will break on the dyno' and to buy an ME221 instead, without disclosing that ME is their sister company, which is a bit off :(
I did not initially want to post this as to not sour the thread.
My friend took his MR2 to be dyno'd there probably 10 years ago. At this point in time they were pushing Omex and attempting to talk my friend into it. Having had my K3 for about a year i was interested in the exact specifications and how the hardware worked. I was told my K3 was sub standard by a long way and the Omex would cope with everything. Being an embedded software engineer and quite accomplished electronics creator I pressed for information. The argument fell apart when comparing the processing power very quickly. The K3 has the same brain as Motec M series ECUs (i think M800 if i remember rightly) which is not only 32-bit but native floating point handling which makes it extremely good whilst not to everyone's flavour. The Omex they were pedalling was 16-bit, very expensive and considerably slower in cycles. Whilst i am well aware firmware on those hardware could screw the pooch (if you pardon the colloquialism) it seemed like the companies behind them were good enough to be at an even keel. This has made me cautious of them but they do get good reviews now although clearing the original owner and likely the person i met is still there.

I'll let more opinions build before I make any decision I cannot tar them for something from 10 years ago and early in their career. They are likely different people now so i'll give it a new leaf look.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:02 PM
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They get good reviews because they bribe everyone to give them good reviews. There are NO independent/unbiased good reviews about them. None.

This is the one place that they cannot just lie and bribe their way into. They didn't last more than a few days here.
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
MTech may refuse to map your Emerald to suit, which kind of defeats the point of using them in the first place. They told a friend of mine to send his MSLabs ECU back for a refund as 'it will break on the dyno' and to buy an ME221 instead, without disclosing that ME is their sister company, which is a bit off :(
Well that's the end of me being silent on the flaming pile of copyright-violation garbage that is the ME221, then
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Old 06-20-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
They get good reviews because they bribe everyone to give them good reviews. There are NO independent/unbiased good reviews about them. None.

This is the one place that they cannot just lie and bribe their way into. They didn't last more than a few days here.
I do realise sponsorship or bribes can be used to obtain silence of bad things and praise where none is deserved.
I also realise that this place is den of enthusiasts who will be brutally honest about the issues faced but if a vendor is articulate enough and ready to help they will thrive.
However, innocent until proven guilty (as well as fool me once) regardless of the previous interactions. Bribery for such a petty thing is a rather serious notion.

On the far more fun note of these shady discussions I am loving the look of the Kraken kit. I'm only a 1.6 long nose so won't be pushing big numbers like Sav or Hustler (was) but I should see 250bhp with some intercooling. It won't happen yet but I can buy the kit and probably some bits for reliability from TSE if shipping doesn't kill me.

Any insights into the above would be great.
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Old 06-20-2018, 05:34 PM
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insight on kraken kit? seems to work just fine, only issues we've heard of so far is slow turn around because he's super busy and flooded with orders, which is common when it comes to very popular parts
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:08 PM
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I've got the kraken kit sitting in my garage. Very nice (but heavy) log manifold, looks like it'll flow better than my old BEGI unit to me. Also came with a full 3" downpipe and full 3" exhaust, including a huge muffler, oil and coolant lines as well. The price was stupid cheap for what i got, nothing else could touch it. Now, I have no idea if it fits, how it performs, or any of that jazz. It's still in a box
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Old 06-21-2018, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
insight on kraken kit? seems to work just fine, only issues we've heard of so far is slow turn around because he's super busy and flooded with orders, which is common when it comes to very popular parts
For someone with a new born that is very much not a problem. Looks like I'm getting a giant octopus.

Anyone got experience with the Kraken tubular manifold?
Looks lighter, flows better but costs more.

Suppose I should look at fuel pumps and injectors too. Is Walbro still the daddy?

Last edited by rrjwilson; 06-21-2018 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rrjwilson View Post
For someone with a new born that is very much not a problem. Looks like I'm getting a giant octopus.

Anyone got experience with the Kraken tubular manifold?
Looks lighter, flows better but costs more.

Suppose I should look at fuel pumps and injectors too. Is Walbro still the daddy?
what kraken tubular manifolds? He only has cast t25 and td04 manifolds.

walbro is good for gas
DW is good for e85 and gas
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by borka View Post
what kraken tubular manifolds? He only has cast t25 and td04 manifolds.
True its not Kraken but DaveFab.
I don't have the wretched facebook so found a supplier and it seems there are tubular dooberies

We don't have E85 here so that makes it easier. Thanks
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rrjwilson View Post
True its not Kraken but DaveFab.
I don't have the wretched facebook so found a supplier and it seems there are tubular dooberies

We don't have E85 here so that makes it easier. Thanks
so your link shows a DaveFAB tubular manifold. not a Kraken one.

here is the Kraken setup from the website you linked:
Kraken Cast T25 Turbo Manifold Kit For MX-5 NA NB ? BOFI Racing

no need to spend big bucks on tubular manifolds. proper cast units flow great, are easy to install and are bombproof reliable.
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:59 AM
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I've read somewhere that the DW fuel pumps are quieter than the Warlbro ones.

I have a DW200 which is a direct replacement for the standard pump, even down to the same connectors / wiring. Seems to work fine for me

For a 1.6 with standard internals, a cast manifold is going to give you everything you need
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by borka View Post
no need to spend big bucks on tubular manifolds. proper cast units flow great, are easy to install and are bombproof reliable.
I was simply thinking faster spool, better drive and with a 1.6 i need all the spooling help i can get. Nice to know they are good enough though.

Fuel pumps for 1.6 and 1.8 are the same right? I didn't dream reading that over the 16 years did I?
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rrjwilson View Post
I was simply thinking faster spool, better drive and with a 1.6 i need all the spooling help i can get. Nice to know they are good enough though.
For the difference in price between the two you could probably source + fit a 1.8 instead (and I can't believe that with this being MT.net it's not been suggested already! )

I think turbo sizing is going to make more of a difference than anything else - stick with a diddy turbo and it'll spool nicely - Garrett GT2554R or the BW equivalent shouldn't be too lethargic...

You mentioned you are close to MTech - whereabouts are you as that's close to my neck of the woods...
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:24 AM
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So at the current count I'm looking at:
  1. SkidNation Reroute
  2. Garrett GT2560R
  3. Bosch 640cc Injectors
  4. Kraken Kit
  5. Intercooler
  6. Deatschwerks DW200 fuel pump
  7. Spare time
#1 is quite important for me (personally not functionally) as I want to declutter the engine bay a bit. Which happens to come with the joy of cooling the block properly.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:31 AM
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I've been a passenger in a 1.6 with a GT2560R and I didn't like it that much - it didn't seem to get going properly until about 3500rpm then it all came at once. That may have been how it was setup though (it was a P5 supplied FM2 kit running link - Minton if you remember him from a long time ago on nutz).

What sort of power are you looking for top end? If the 2554R could get you there, I'd probably pick that instead. I had one on a 1.8 a long time ago and it was great - virtually no lag, spooled up from about 1800rpm and drove almost like a supercharged car....
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
MTech may refuse to map your Emerald to suit, which kind of defeats the point of using them in the first place. They told a friend of mine to send his MSLabs ECU back for a refund as 'it will break on the dyno' and to buy an ME221 instead, without disclosing that ME is their sister company, which is a bit off :(
I knew they were douchebags, but this level of douchebaggery is just phenomenal. No more mr nice guy from me either. Enough is enough.
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