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Old 03-08-2013, 09:31 AM   #101
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It's easier is a great excuse for not building a high flowing but complicated manifold.

And costs, lead time, and that customer base doesn't care.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:07 AM   #102
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Yeah, someone should tell FM that their manifolds for NA/NBs are a **** poor excuse.

Although I do want to go back to that original thread and point out that everything that all the 'haters' who were 'DDoSing' said has been fixed in the final version.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:11 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
I do not get it? What is wrong with v-band on a log?
its about as counter productive and silly as putting carburators on an EFI car
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:05 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
its about as counter productive and silly as putting carburators on an EFI car

I was looking for something more informative, not your usual **** talking. Humor me for once.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:14 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
I was looking for something more informative, not your usual **** talking. Humor me for once.
That was actually a VERY close analogy/comparison. I'm completely serious. Don't get mad because its true. We've gone over this already.

You're paying premium for a v-band hotside, a v-band ewg, and other premium components all of which are to increase flow, efficiency, and precision, only to use a log, which is the most basic, and least efficient manifold there is.

That's like building a baller 3" titanium turboback exhaust with v-bands/etc , and then throw in crush bent mild steel bends.

Its counter productive. You're still paying a bunch of money, and you're still not getting optimal performance.

If you're gonna save money, save money. If you're gonna go all out, go all out.

You know this. Everyone knows this. Its not rocket science.

When he made his 1st iteration we all provided feedback. He could have tweaked some of the poorly executed designs and actually had a decent setup. But somehow he went full retard.

Just my .02


I can't wait for someone that's not stupid and actually uses his brain, like wittyworks, or artech, or absurdflow, to put something together. I bet it will be WIN.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:27 PM   #106
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That is such horse ****. Bigotry horse **** that comes from you everyday.

I see no reason why having a v-band on that log is stupid. It makes for a nicer easier to work on set up. A full upgrade? No. A level up? Yes.

For the record, my record still stands even though I went backwards in your eyes.

Last edited by miata2fast; 03-10-2013 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:37 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
That is such horse ****. Bigotry horse **** that comes from you everyday.

I see no reason why having a v-band on that log up is stupid. It makes for a nicer easier to work on set up. A full upgrade? No. A level up? Yes.

For the record, my record still stands even though I went backwards in your eyes.
Okay chief

Not in my eyes. In the eyes of mankind.
By that logic we should all be riding horses.

Are there still carb'd cars still going fast? Yep. Is it a step back from EFI? Yep.

Are you just not comprehending what I'm saying, or being willfully ignorant just to flame me? Not that I care, but:

Nothing wrong with log manifolds. If the idea is to save money, by all means save money. By why optimize half the setup and de-optimize the rest? In the end you're not saving all the money you could be saving, and not reaching the power potential you could be reaching. Its mediocrity.

Is that too hard to follow? Take an aspirin, drink some coffee, and lets see if we can have a civil discussion about this. Or don't. I don't care.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:50 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Nothing wrong with log manifolds. If the idea is to save money, by all means save money. By why optimize half the setup and de-optimize the rest? In the end you're not saving all the money you could be saving, and not reaching the power potential you could be reaching. Its mediocrity.

Is that too hard to follow? Take an aspirin, drink some coffee, and lets see if we can have a civil discussion about this. Or don't. I don't care.
I think the idea is more to produce one manifold that fits both a LHD and a RHD NC miata. Cost difference between having a normal t2 flange the the v-band flange is next to nothing. They were going with external gates on the old setup I believe so that cost was already there.

So until you can show me a NC manifold that fits both RHD and LHD cars with a normal t2 flange I can't say I have any problem with the way they went. In all honestly I think Tim has belt something similar to a log with a v-band setup to fit an NA with PS and AC.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:51 PM   #109
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That is the problem with you bro you can not have a civil conversation without being a *****. Just sayin.

Here is to you getting along with all your friends and family.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:00 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
That is the problem with you bro you can not have a civil conversation without being a *****. Just sayin.

Here is to you getting along with all your friends and family.
I think I hear the pot calling the kettle black in this post. I get along with just about everyone besides n00bs and people like you (who enable the n00bs and promote "creativity" such as running carbs on a miata)

You're just being a reverse-*****: doing exactly the same thing I am, except arguing the other side. That's it.

Here, take a look at Shuiends post, it is actually a valid argument for using a log setup. He managed to explain it to me while you failed massively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
I think the idea is more to produce one manifold that fits both a LHD and a RHD NC miata. Cost difference between having a normal t2 flange the the v-band flange is next to nothing. They were going with external gates on the old setup I believe so that cost was already there.

So until you can show me a NC manifold that fits both RHD and LHD cars with a normal t2 flange I can't say I have any problem with the way they went. In all honestly I think Tim has belt something similar to a log with a v-band setup to fit an NA with PS and AC.
Ok, point taken. So the goal is compatibility. Not power potential or money savings.
I realize what you're saying about the vband hotside, however if saving money was the goal (lets just assume it was), they coulda went with a basic log, regular t2 internally gated hotside, and saved at least $500 if not more. That's what I was bothered by.

Actually I'm more bothered by the fact that he didn't just do the minor tweaks this forum was suggesting to the previous one, because that coulda turned into a pretty nice setup.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:02 PM   #111
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I dunno why he couldn't do a shorter tubular like he had and have it close to the same spot. i dunno.

I'm pretty sure he did that manifold for simpilicity and cost. and he achieved that.
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:22 AM   #112
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might as well buy a saturn sky or the pontiac version of it.
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:16 AM   #113
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Oh the horror.
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:40 PM   #114
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Still nothing like a saturn or sky. Driving one of those feels like you're sitting in a manhole and peeking out. They feel so comparatively numb compared to a Miata.

I think the new setup is sweet. With this kit, the idea is that people are paying for ease and convenience. This manifold will meet their power goals, it's much easier to work with and will likely be more reliable long-term (eg. less cracking). It fits both LHD and RHD cars, and the V-bands make it sooooo much easier to install and change, it doesn't cost much more, and they're more reliable.

I fail to see why the vbands are a bad idea in any way. Yes the kit costs a little more. But it sure looks like a nice kit! Much better than version 1.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:54 PM   #115
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I find it funny because vbands are cheaper than the flanges.
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:50 PM   #116
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I am just glad to see more development on the NC. My lust for one continues.
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:52 PM   #117
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V-bands are more reliable than the non-inconel stud arrangement, don't have gaskets, and don't have space related problems for tightening some of the nuts. The downside is the turbine housings are less common and cost more.
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:27 PM   #118
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Which is stupid since vbands are cheaper to make than the flanges.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:23 AM   #119
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:36 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
... In all honestly I think Tim has belt something similar to a log with a v-band setup to fit an NA with PS and AC.
I've only built one log manifold ever, for a local kid who gave me all the material and just paid me to weld it. It was not Vband.

Maybe you are confusing it with my BEGI/FM replacement mani which isn't a log at all. Has a collector similar to the original absurdflow style, just built with tight radius bends instead of long rad. bends and orientated/rotated 90 deg so that the flange is vertical, not horizontal.
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