hustler

iTrader: (6)

step 1: Make thread
step 2: Disagree with replies
step 3: Search for a convenient answer/solution
step 4: Make a case for the answer you wanted to hear initially
step 5: Sex-up young males

soloracer

iTrader: (10)

It took over 3 years but I've finally been harassed by Hustler! I was waiting for this because I'm sure it seems like I just don't wanna pull the engine - cuz I don't! It's frustrating and perhaps I'm in denial. If I decide I really need to do it though, I will.

-I don't necessarily disagree with the replies. Some were assuming there's a hole - you made up your mind before seeing a pic, Hustler. I was trying to clarify that the nick is less substantial in real life than the pic makes it look.


-I have never had the opportunity to examine a pickup tube. What I was looking for was information / facts regarding the integrity of the part. What I got was "Man up, pull the motor -it will fail, you will cry like a bitch."

I'm not looking for validation, but information. I was hoping someone with more knowledge and experience than I would say something either like:

"Oh, you should be fine - That tube isn't subject to much vibration, and though it is thin, it's steel and pretty sturdy"

OR

"Bummer, that thing is thinner than tissue and gets the **** beat out of it in the pan. Plus there's 60 psi going through it all the time and they've been known to collapse."

-There is precedent for JB Weld working, and I'm considering it but I'm fully aware it is not the best solution.

Anyhow - How tough is it to do this by dropping the subframe instead of pulling the engine? I mean, how hard is dropping the subframe? I already have all the suspension off the car b/c I'm going to do bushings and suspect I may have a blown shock, so I imagine that's the bulk of the job. I also have the calipers unbolted and tied out of the way, what else needs done besides unbolting motor mounts and hoisting the engine / supporting the tranny?

This way seems that it might be simpler than pulling, since I have it disassembled to this point already. I also only have about 2' between the front of the car and the garage wall, so pulling the engine would be even more difficult. Thoughts?

olderguy

iTrader: (19)

Cleaning off the old RTV and putting a new pan on is MUCH better with the engine out. I would run the tube as is rather than try to do the pan while the engine is in the car.

ianferrell

2nd'd... if you REALLY don't think there's a hole I'd run it... Its not a thick tube, but the only stress on it is a little suction from the oil pump, its not going to collapse.

soloracer

iTrader: (10)

I should know better than to continue the thread, and I'm thinking I will probably let the car sit until April (hand surgery should be healed by then) and just pull the engine. However, I rigged up a light last night, cleaned off the tube and got a better photo...so here it is.

What is weird to me about this is that, judging from other's photos - it seems to be thicker than it should be. At least thicker than photos I have seen. Seems like it should have a gaping hole in it at that depth. The nick is a good 1/16" deep.

Sean

iTrader: (12)

if it is steel it is not that far into the pan why not hit it with the welder

Torkel

The way the cut is placed makes it hard to see if there is a small small hole there. It would be just a thin crack due to the perspective, but it would stil be a hole.

When I start up my car the first time after its winter sleep I always crank it on the starter (with the coils unplugged) until I see oil pressure, to prime it a bit. Would doing that tell us anything here, or is the pressure at "cranking speed" to low?

If you are unsure, just pull the engine. Might be unnecessary work, but might also save you an engine. Just imagine how you will kick yourself if you screw the engine after this thread.

soloracer

iTrader: (10)

Oh yeah, I know. There for sure could be a pinhole. I do already have it somewhat apart. Easier to pull now than after it's back together.

soloracer

iTrader: (10)

This is what I would prefer to do above all...problem is I don't have a welder or a clue how to weld. I have 2 friends with welders but I don't trust their skills and I'm pretty sure they don't either!

Preluding

iTrader: (10)

Find a professional welder who is confident enough to do it or

I go in there with an abrasive wire wheel on a dremel and scuff it up real good, Hit it with brake cleaner, then do 2 or more small coats of JB weld over the next few days letting each coat dry.

Then again... I have no oil pressure in my car no...so my opinion may not count.

Sean

iTrader: (12)

I have had very very good luck with jb weld as long as the surface is cleaned and prepped well I hate to admit this but I even used some to fix the top of a combustion chamber in my cr 250 and it held up great. On the other had welding it would be best and I know around me there are some mobile welders that are excellent and it may cost about $100 but if they can do it it will save you a ton of time, but if someone comes to do it and they even hesitate for a second send them on their way because they don't feel comfortable.

Savington

iTrader: (31)

Having seen it with the light, there is no doubt in my mind that you should pull the pan and replace it.

While you're in there, just have a 1/2" NPT bung welded to the pan like a baller.

soloracer

iTrader: (10)

Oh hell yeah. If that engine comes out it's either getting a welded NPT port (further back, under the turbo most likely) or an MSM pan...provided I can find one and it's not too much trouble /expense.

Just kills me though. I wish I'd have just pulled it in the first place. If I ever do another one, I will. Easier than working around all the crap. It's a bummer that I just bolted the tranny back up last week.....

Sean

iTrader: (12)

That is always how it seems to happen. I feel your pain.

Savington

iTrader: (31)

Pull it with the tranny attached. I don't know why anyone does it any other way. When we pull a drivetrain, EVERYTHING stays attached - turbo, downpipe, transmission, even the driveshaft if we aren't swapping tranny fluid.

If a car came to TSE for a turbo kit installation and a clutch installation, step 1 is pulling the motor.

Savington

iTrader: (31)

Finding a welder good enough to lay a bead on that tube, but also stupid enough to jam an arc-welder into a cavity filled with oil and oil fumes, may be rather difficult (or at least I hope it would be).

soloracer

iTrader: (10)

Yeah, I thought of that. I just figured it could be purged with CO2 or something. Like I said before...I know nothing of welding.....

soloracer

iTrader: (10)

Yeah, I plan to for sure. Point was that it would have been much easier to re-attach the tranny with the engine out. Next time I do one of these that's how it will be from the beginning. A buddy of mine asked me to help with one for a customer and I told him I would if we could pull the engine. The guy wants a new clutch too, so it's the only way I think.

soloracer

iTrader: (10)

So, any thoughts on the MSM oil pan? Was thinking I might go this route for the factory drain port and the catch can return. However, the more I see what pools in catch cans, the less sure I am that I want to put that back in the sump. Is there a way to separate the oil and water before returning it? Good way of capping off that port if I don't use it?

Maybe I should just keep the pan I have and get a bung welded on...... or get a later pan set-up with the MBSP, not because I'll need that but while it's apart.....why not?

What would the cool kids do? I'd like to be able to use the FM hard lines since I already have them.

triple88a

iTrader: (2)

Looking at the pic it does look like its cracked right in the middle of the of the tapped part. Looking at how thin the tube is, my guess would be, it got bent inwards about a 16th of an inch the 1st flute and then the 2nd one cut it, thats why it looks like its thick. In my eyes, yes there definitely is a hairline crack in the tube that will allow air in.