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Old 02-28-2014, 03:26 PM   #1
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Default 300WHP-NT01 vs RIVAL

HPDE and time attack events only, street use just driving to/back from events. will approx. 300whp be too much for the BFG Rival to handle?

Leaning towards the nitto as its a known quantity that doesn't seem to cycle out if cared for. BFG Rival, I cant find any info regarding that and it's an issue for me as my previous RS3's (200whp) turned to hockey pucks well before tread was worn out.

sizes would be 225/45/15 for both on 15X9's. Tires have to be 50 UTQG and higher so no C71's/Hoosiers/RR's etc allowed. tks.
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:35 PM   #2
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:inb4irrelaventautoxposts:
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:38 PM   #3
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"I autocross my car and find that rivals accept 450 whp well, as long as your squirt them with water after every run."

"I would also suggest you look at 195 toyos".
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:58 PM   #4
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I feel bad. The OP is new here so might not get the joke. Someone give him a real answer.

EDIT: OK I guess not "new" but still might not get it.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:09 PM   #5
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ok ok, I know a few guys who run 225 RS3s for TT on 270whp miatas. They don't seem to have any problems, but I don't know if they ditch them before the tread is gone completely. You can also shave some of the tread.

Don't have info on the Rivals, but the NT-01s are a sure bet. You may still heat cycle them out before the tread is gone though, just depends on your sessions and all that.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:47 PM   #6
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Irrelevant auto-x post, miata sized street tires on miatas with over 250hp are just expensive smoke machines.
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:25 PM   #7
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I'm trying to figure out why it's bad that a tire would heat cycle out before the tread is gone, assuming it's still posting times in the hunt of your other options.

Does not compute.


In competition, don't we rate tires by how long they stay fast? Not how long it takes for cords to show?
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:17 PM   #8
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Not bitter about your tire recommendation thread are you Stein?

I'm probably one of the few that are less than impressed with the Rivals, at least in 205/50/15. They screech like mad and I'm fairly certain are quite a bit slower than 225/45/15 RS3. Same wheels same track, better (cooler) temperatures. Apples to pineapples comparison I know but when there's an event coming up and you need tires it's either buy what's available or don't run. They would be a fun street tire if not so obnoxiously squeely loud every time you even think about taking a turn.

Emilio says the NT-01 is old news and none of the SoCal guys run them anymore. I don't know if they are running Rivals or the new Maxxis RC-1.

Post #37 in this thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Varies depending on the car and weather. At worst, they're equal. Cooler weather and/or heavier car, the RC-1's are faster. On our light Miatas, we need to have track temps under about 90* for the RC-1's to really out pace the NT01's. The RC-1's do last longer and steer better. That's saying a lot because the NT01's steer well for a hard compound HPDE level tire.

None of the Socal Miata HPDE crew but NT01's any longer.

The chart looks pretty accurate to me except I would put the Rivals and RS-3's on the same line. The Rivals are just easier to drive and last longer. Setup can be off a bit and still be fast with Rivals. RS-3's require a closer to optimum setup for the car to feel good. This is largely because you can bulldog a poorly setup car on Rivals into rotating without scrubbing too much speed. Exact same input/entry speed with RS-3's on the same car and you're farming.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Rules are meant to be broken. (except the SM rule.) Most 205s will be slightly faster on a 9" wheel, but the difference would be hard to measure. The 205/50 SM6/R6 is definitely faster on a 9" wheel and the difference is easy to measure.

Assumptions: 2 minute road course, 2-3 miles in length, the NT-01 will do a lap in 2 minutes

Assuming all tires in a 205/50 where applicable
Fast
Hoosier R75 (call the chiropractor)
Hoosier R80 (jesus christ)
Hoosier R100 (more)
BFG R1S (a lot)
Hoosier A6 (-4.0-4.5 depending on weather)
BFG R1
Hoosier SM6/R6 (-3.5)
Hankook C71 (-2.5)
Toyo RR (-2.5)
Continental Grand-Am slick (225/45) (-1)

Nitto NT-01 (0)

BFG Rivals (+0.5 or less)
Hankook Ventus R-S3 (+1 or less)
Toyo R1R (195/50) (+1.5)
Dunlop Direzza ZII
Dunlop Direzza Star Specs Z1
Falken Azenis RT-615
Slow

Choose your poison I guess... I would go for NT-01 personnally or Maxxis RC-1 if you're not in a hurry and since your in Canada too, I think you have some time !
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:36 AM   #10
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the tire hierarchy chart is actually what prompted my original question. Ive been checking the maxxis site and they don't have a 225. Theres a 245/40/15 but grm test from dec 13 makes me think a 245 is wasted on a 9" wheel.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:23 PM   #11
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Even the 225/45-15 NT-01s (on 9" wheels) will get pretty warm with 300 HP. If I push the car, I can feel the grip falling off after 4-5 laps, and the tire temps are pretty warm when checked right after the session (measured with a probe pyrometer). Not a big deal, they can take the abuse, and are still pretty easy to control at the limit. And if I am on the NT-01s I am not trying to set any really fast laps anyway.

That being said, I'll try the Maxxis tires next (when they become available in a 245).
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
Even the 225/45-15 NT-01s (on 9" wheels) will get pretty warm with 300 HP. If I push the car, I can feel the grip falling off after 4-5 laps, and the tire temps are pretty warm when checked right after the session (measured with a probe pyrometer). Not a big deal, they can take the abuse, and are still pretty easy to control at the limit. And if I am on the NT-01s I am not trying to set any really fast laps anyway.

That being said, I'll try the Maxxis tires next (when they become available in a 245).
4-5 lap sprints is what I do anyways.
I'm limited to utqg 50 and up for classing so NT01 seems like the best choice. I considered the bfg rival but consensus here seems to be to not bother.
what are you running for rear camber with the 300whp?
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:18 PM   #13
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Pretty much follow Emilio's setup on the 949 page. That will get you close, then tweak it from there with a pyrometer.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:39 AM   #14
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I have been running the same set of NT01s for over 3 year across 15 - 20 track days (50* - 102* weather) and just cord one last weekend. Would have 1 more day but I flat spotted it nice and good. Car puts down 250 and scares me so I have never really been able to push them to the max. I have a fresh set of NT01s and Rivals on 9s ready to go for 2 days of pain next weekend. I will let you know how it goes.

My plan going forward is 2/3 day on Rivals and 1/3 on NT01s.

I love NT01s just for the fact of how long the first set lasted me. Think I only streeted them 3 or 4 times maybe 500 miles total.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:18 PM   #15
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NT-01's were awesome, but that affair is over for me. Once you've pushed some HoHo's to the limit, NT-01's are like all season's. Next set is probably gonna be 245/40 maxxis rc-1's or Hoosier A6 or 7's for track and RS3's or Rival's for the street.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:00 PM   #16
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HoHos cost to much.

I ran 2 days on a new set of rivals over the weekend and they felt so good I didn't even run the NT-01s. I was leaving time on the track so I didn't want to switch to nts till I found all my time on the rivals.

Sort story, I really like the rivals.
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Old 03-10-2014, 06:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_man View Post
HoHos cost to much.

I ran 2 days on a new set of rivals over the weekend and they felt so good I didn't even run the NT-01s. I was leaving time on the track so I didn't want to switch to nts till I found all my time on the rivals.

Sort story, I really like the rivals.
They do, I still haven't bought a new set. I was lucky enough to win 1, bought 1 with 1 heat cycle, (just scrubbed in), and bought a pair with 3-4 heat cycles. So I still don't really know what a full new set could do I guess. All I know is those with another 15whp was good for 5.5sec off my best on Nt-01's at TWS.
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:17 PM   #18
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I was also running them in 45-55* cloudy weather. Last run was sunny and 60* but to much traffic to get a good run to tell.
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