Adventures in PTE/TTE
09-11-2017, 06:04 PM
#1081
Elite Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,533
Total Cats: 741
My car a year ago was a roach(as Emilio likes to call it). It never saw an alignment rack until Sonny set it up here in prep for WSC.
Marcus' car has/had, more camber, more power, more rpm, ~80lbs more weight, sticker tires and I had another year of seat time in PT prepped NBs. We also didn't have the mental stress of double dipping into PT and were running within 7lbs of min weight every session. Marcus knew his fuel weight really well.(This time around I was the driver carrying the spare tire for ballast though!)
My Giken was not used to capacity because of my stock 7200rpm limiter. I was shifting at corner exit last year, where Marcus' car gets to pull for a while and make use of the exit speed better.
My inconsistent driving combined with the diff and brake issues cost us at least a second which would have allowed us to run with Nueman.
Theoretical gains from having the extra 15-20whp to reach the class cap or a 4.7 Giken only point to proof that PT NBs should run in the 39s.
Marcus' car has/had, more camber, more power, more rpm, ~80lbs more weight, sticker tires and I had another year of seat time in PT prepped NBs. We also didn't have the mental stress of double dipping into PT and were running within 7lbs of min weight every session. Marcus knew his fuel weight really well.(This time around I was the driver carrying the spare tire for ballast though!)
My Giken was not used to capacity because of my stock 7200rpm limiter. I was shifting at corner exit last year, where Marcus' car gets to pull for a while and make use of the exit speed better.
My inconsistent driving combined with the diff and brake issues cost us at least a second which would have allowed us to run with Nueman.
Theoretical gains from having the extra 15-20whp to reach the class cap or a 4.7 Giken only point to proof that PT NBs should run in the 39s.
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09-11-2017, 07:13 PM
#1083
Before PTE is gone, I really want to see a fully dialed NB1 points build with a top level driver set times at VIR, Mid-O, Sonoma, Miller, Watkins Glen and Buttonwillow. Those are all tracks we never got to with Super.
In 2012, I left a full second on the table with Crusher in the TT on A6's. The diff was toast, it was about 30whp down above 7500rpm (135 vs 172) and the car got about 1s a last faster when we brought it back and Greg changed the rules.
We were classed at 172 but made 159 at 7200rpm on their dyno. By 8200 it was down to about 135. That should have been a low 1:35 but I never went out in the fast session Sunday morning when everyone else dropped over a second. With a healthy engine and fresh diff, high 1:33's, I have no doubt.
That all leads me to believe that our mythical 142whp/2410# NB1 on R7's could do a 1:37 in good weather at Mid O. It's there.
In 2012, I left a full second on the table with Crusher in the TT on A6's. The diff was toast, it was about 30whp down above 7500rpm (135 vs 172) and the car got about 1s a last faster when we brought it back and Greg changed the rules.
We were classed at 172 but made 159 at 7200rpm on their dyno. By 8200 it was down to about 135. That should have been a low 1:35 but I never went out in the fast session Sunday morning when everyone else dropped over a second. With a healthy engine and fresh diff, high 1:33's, I have no doubt.
That all leads me to believe that our mythical 142whp/2410# NB1 on R7's could do a 1:37 in good weather at Mid O. It's there.
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09-11-2017, 07:25 PM
#1084
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 491
Total Cats: 32
Before PTE is gone, I really want to see a fully dialed NB1 points build with a top level driver set times at VIR, Mid-O, Sonoma, Miller, Watkins Glen and Buttonwillow. Those are all tracks we never got to with Super.
In 2012, I left a full second on the table with Crusher in the TT on A6's. The diff was toast, it was about 30whp down above 7500rpm (135 vs 172) and the car got about 1s a last faster when we brought it back and Greg changed the rules.
We were classed at 172 but made 159 at 7200rpm on their dyno. By 8200 it was down to about 135. That should have been a low 1:35 but I never went out in the fast session Sunday morning when everyone else dropped over a second. With a healthy engine and fresh diff, high 1:33's, I have no doubt.
That all leads me to believe that our mythical 142whp/2410# NB1 on R7's could do a 1:37 in good weather at Mid O. It's there.
In 2012, I left a full second on the table with Crusher in the TT on A6's. The diff was toast, it was about 30whp down above 7500rpm (135 vs 172) and the car got about 1s a last faster when we brought it back and Greg changed the rules.
We were classed at 172 but made 159 at 7200rpm on their dyno. By 8200 it was down to about 135. That should have been a low 1:35 but I never went out in the fast session Sunday morning when everyone else dropped over a second. With a healthy engine and fresh diff, high 1:33's, I have no doubt.
That all leads me to believe that our mythical 142whp/2410# NB1 on R7's could do a 1:37 in good weather at Mid O. It's there.
I've run a 2:17.2 (Should have been a 2:17 flat, but 4th gear was checking out) in a dyno classed NB2 that was 100lbs overweight, has no detune, no E85, factory LSD, no front end 0 pt aero, SM7s, factory glass, has never seen a tire pyrometer, and has an average driver at best so I'm thinking even Kohler's time is soft if you catch the right weather. (March or October are the events you're most likely to get the best conditions... or rain)
Go talk Tom Long or Mike Skeen into smashing a club record.
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09-12-2017, 10:26 AM
#1085
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Statesville, NC
Posts: 2,738
Total Cats: 319
Watching this back is painful. I've been working on my steering inputs alot and trying to stop sawing(SoloNats didn't help this), and to have a lighter grip in general. Adjusting to multiple cars each day is tough, and I never felt like I nailed a whole lap. :(
The laptime was amazing given the gremlins, but I see sooo much time left on the table under braking for all the right handers, Keyhole, T7, T11 into Thunder Valley, Carousel. The right rear would lock with what felt like 60% brake pedal if there was any steering angle input at all. I also missed the apex in keyhole and have to breathe off the throttle during exit, this ends up costing me several mph and negating the need for a 5th gear upshift(was this a wash? need data.), nearly miss the downshift at China Beach, coast through 10B and into 11 with a neutered line/entry to get the braking down in as straight a line as possible. All that and still set a PB. Your car is an $80 prop valve away from beating Neuman. That motor was clearly making some hero horsepower right before it let go!
Thanks again for letting me wheel a couple sessions! I never expected a low 1:41 (no offense) so it was awesome to achieve that. Nolan has gotten much faster this season and is legitimate competition. He nudged me back to third on Sunday when I drove another competitor's car.
Hope you make it back, Mid O is tough to master.
A purpose built NB1 points car would go 1:38.9 in weather like we had Saturday morning.. I want so bad to see it happen.
The laptime was amazing given the gremlins, but I see sooo much time left on the table under braking for all the right handers, Keyhole, T7, T11 into Thunder Valley, Carousel. The right rear would lock with what felt like 60% brake pedal if there was any steering angle input at all. I also missed the apex in keyhole and have to breathe off the throttle during exit, this ends up costing me several mph and negating the need for a 5th gear upshift(was this a wash? need data.), nearly miss the downshift at China Beach, coast through 10B and into 11 with a neutered line/entry to get the braking down in as straight a line as possible. All that and still set a PB. Your car is an $80 prop valve away from beating Neuman. That motor was clearly making some hero horsepower right before it let go!
Thanks again for letting me wheel a couple sessions! I never expected a low 1:41 (no offense) so it was awesome to achieve that. Nolan has gotten much faster this season and is legitimate competition. He nudged me back to third on Sunday when I drove another competitor's car.
Hope you make it back, Mid O is tough to master.
A purpose built NB1 points car would go 1:38.9 in weather like we had Saturday morning.. I want so bad to see it happen.
In regards to your hand grip, James and I both noticed you actually had a really light grip on the wheel. Mine was much tighter, but that was my first event with a proper steering rack. It was a literal work out beforehand. You were clearly comfortable in my car, slipping up and down madness with ease.
My car a year ago was a roach(as Emilio likes to call it). It never saw an alignment rack until Sonny set it up here in prep for WSC.
Marcus' car has/had, more camber, more power, more rpm, ~80lbs more weight, sticker tires and I had another year of seat time in PT prepped NBs. We also didn't have the mental stress of double dipping into PT and were running within 7lbs of min weight every session. Marcus knew his fuel weight really well.(This time around I was the driver carrying the spare tire for ballast though!)
My Giken was not used to capacity because of my stock 7200rpm limiter. I was shifting at corner exit last year, where Marcus' car gets to pull for a while and make use of the exit speed better.
My inconsistent driving combined with the diff and brake issues cost us at least a second which would have allowed us to run with Nueman.
Theoretical gains from having the extra 15-20whp to reach the class cap or a 4.7 Giken only point to proof that PT NBs should run in the 39s.
Marcus' car has/had, more camber, more power, more rpm, ~80lbs more weight, sticker tires and I had another year of seat time in PT prepped NBs. We also didn't have the mental stress of double dipping into PT and were running within 7lbs of min weight every session. Marcus knew his fuel weight really well.(This time around I was the driver carrying the spare tire for ballast though!)
My Giken was not used to capacity because of my stock 7200rpm limiter. I was shifting at corner exit last year, where Marcus' car gets to pull for a while and make use of the exit speed better.
My inconsistent driving combined with the diff and brake issues cost us at least a second which would have allowed us to run with Nueman.
Theoretical gains from having the extra 15-20whp to reach the class cap or a 4.7 Giken only point to proof that PT NBs should run in the 39s.
I'm 100% confident my car with correct brake bias, on-the-money weight, and another 15whp would be in the 1:38s at Mid-O with you driving for sure. My next trip up I plan to put down some 1:41s or 1:40s....hopefully.
Before PTE is gone, I really want to see a fully dialed NB1 points build with a top level driver set times at VIR, Mid-O, Sonoma, Miller, Watkins Glen and Buttonwillow. Those are all tracks we never got to with Super.
In 2012, I left a full second on the table with Crusher in the TT on A6's. The diff was toast, it was about 30whp down above 7500rpm (135 vs 172) and the car got about 1s a last faster when we brought it back and Greg changed the rules.
We were classed at 172 but made 159 at 7200rpm on their dyno. By 8200 it was down to about 135. That should have been a low 1:35 but I never went out in the fast session Sunday morning when everyone else dropped over a second. With a healthy engine and fresh diff, high 1:33's, I have no doubt.
That all leads me to believe that our mythical 142whp/2410# NB1 on R7's could do a 1:37 in good weather at Mid O. It's there.
In 2012, I left a full second on the table with Crusher in the TT on A6's. The diff was toast, it was about 30whp down above 7500rpm (135 vs 172) and the car got about 1s a last faster when we brought it back and Greg changed the rules.
We were classed at 172 but made 159 at 7200rpm on their dyno. By 8200 it was down to about 135. That should have been a low 1:35 but I never went out in the fast session Sunday morning when everyone else dropped over a second. With a healthy engine and fresh diff, high 1:33's, I have no doubt.
That all leads me to believe that our mythical 142whp/2410# NB1 on R7's could do a 1:37 in good weather at Mid O. It's there.
With my engine going out I'm at a turning point. Do I....
A. Source another "junkyard" engine and put'er in, continue to run rest of season, and stay on schedule for cage install.
B. Build a 0 points engine, buy ECU, move points around, cry a little, swap to corn, tune it correctly for 140-145ish, and push the cage back a couple of months.
I like option B because
1. It SHOULD last many track hours
2. I know I could beat the PTE(1:43.5ish) and TTE(1:43.1xx) records at Road Atlanta with that power. My PB with ~130 is a 1:44.2xx and ~5hp on that track nets quite a bit of time.
However, I don't like that option because it pushes my cage plans back and stretches my budget pretty thin. I sometimes forget this is my "hobby" since I'm so involved with it.
Kohler did a 2:14.96 there at VIR during ECC. The NASA-MA record is stupid soft, it's a 2:16.19.
I've run a 2:17.2 (Should have been a 2:17 flat, but 4th gear was checking out) in a dyno classed NB2 that was 100lbs overweight, has no detune, no E85, factory LSD, no front end 0 pt aero, SM7s, factory glass, has never seen a tire pyrometer, and has an average driver at best so I'm thinking even Kohler's time is soft if you catch the right weather. (March or October are the events you're most likely to get the best conditions... or rain)
Go talk Tom Long or Mike Skeen into smashing a club record.
I've run a 2:17.2 (Should have been a 2:17 flat, but 4th gear was checking out) in a dyno classed NB2 that was 100lbs overweight, has no detune, no E85, factory LSD, no front end 0 pt aero, SM7s, factory glass, has never seen a tire pyrometer, and has an average driver at best so I'm thinking even Kohler's time is soft if you catch the right weather. (March or October are the events you're most likely to get the best conditions... or rain)
Go talk Tom Long or Mike Skeen into smashing a club record.
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09-15-2017, 07:11 PM
#1088
Elite Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,533
Total Cats: 741
NASA August 2017 MidOhio Performance Touring Race Report:
David Zeigler's first PTE race, resets Mid Ohio pro Course record to 1:40.31.
He is a good driver and in a no-aero, R7 NB1.
PTD record was also reset at the same event, to 1:43.011.....
David Zeigler's first PTE race, resets Mid Ohio pro Course record to 1:40.31.
He is a good driver and in a no-aero, R7 NB1.
PTD record was also reset at the same event, to 1:43.011.....
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10-31-2017, 08:23 AM
#1089
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Bama
Posts: 462
Total Cats: 120
TL;DR acquired Xida cheat codes and 4.77, still slow. Require more nut behind wheel. Also, I know i know, seat/harness is going in before 2018 season.
With TWS getting shutdown to store cars from Harvey we had the Texas season finale at NOLA. I've always thought this track wouldn't be that good, because flat, but holy hell is it fun. Fast, great flow, and late apexes for days. Any ways, my buddy reset the track record twice on Sunday during Session 2/3 ending up at 1:59.2 in his NB1 making ~135whp on 205 RR's with VMAXX and FM sways. His car is loose, but he likes it that way as a karter, he drives off the back of the car a lot. The closest I could manage to get was 2:02.1 with my 125whp and 225 RS4's. My goal was to get "in the window" and justify R7's so I could bring the fight in 2018 on my pre-approved TTE 127/2375 reclass...but I don't think 2.9 seconds is that window. Le sigh. Guess I'll have to pony up for mo' powah and the 136/2430 TTE* reclass.
Here's a 2:02.7, since I didn't record my fastest lap as per usual.
With TWS getting shutdown to store cars from Harvey we had the Texas season finale at NOLA. I've always thought this track wouldn't be that good, because flat, but holy hell is it fun. Fast, great flow, and late apexes for days. Any ways, my buddy reset the track record twice on Sunday during Session 2/3 ending up at 1:59.2 in his NB1 making ~135whp on 205 RR's with VMAXX and FM sways. His car is loose, but he likes it that way as a karter, he drives off the back of the car a lot. The closest I could manage to get was 2:02.1 with my 125whp and 225 RS4's. My goal was to get "in the window" and justify R7's so I could bring the fight in 2018 on my pre-approved TTE 127/2375 reclass...but I don't think 2.9 seconds is that window. Le sigh. Guess I'll have to pony up for mo' powah and the 136/2430 TTE* reclass.
Here's a 2:02.7, since I didn't record my fastest lap as per usual.
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10-31-2017, 09:13 AM
#1091
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Statesville, NC
Posts: 2,738
Total Cats: 319
TL;DR acquired Xida cheat codes and 4.77, still slow. Require more nut behind wheel. Also, I know i know, seat/harness is going in before 2018 season.
With TWS getting shutdown to store cars from Harvey we had the Texas season finale at NOLA. I've always thought this track wouldn't be that good, because flat, but holy hell is it fun. Fast, great flow, and late apexes for days. Any ways, my buddy reset the track record twice on Sunday during Session 2/3 ending up at 1:59.2 in his NB1 making ~135whp on 205 RR's with VMAXX and FM sways. His car is loose, but he likes it that way as a karter, he drives off the back of the car a lot. The closest I could manage to get was 2:02.1 with my 125whp and 225 RS4's. My goal was to get "in the window" and justify R7's so I could bring the fight in 2018 on my pre-approved TTE 127/2375 reclass...but I don't think 2.9 seconds is that window. Le sigh. Guess I'll have to pony up for mo' powah and the 136/2430 TTE* reclass.
Here's a 2:02.7, since I didn't record my fastest lap as per usual.
https://youtu.be/pMXXwEwDPvg
With TWS getting shutdown to store cars from Harvey we had the Texas season finale at NOLA. I've always thought this track wouldn't be that good, because flat, but holy hell is it fun. Fast, great flow, and late apexes for days. Any ways, my buddy reset the track record twice on Sunday during Session 2/3 ending up at 1:59.2 in his NB1 making ~135whp on 205 RR's with VMAXX and FM sways. His car is loose, but he likes it that way as a karter, he drives off the back of the car a lot. The closest I could manage to get was 2:02.1 with my 125whp and 225 RS4's. My goal was to get "in the window" and justify R7's so I could bring the fight in 2018 on my pre-approved TTE 127/2375 reclass...but I don't think 2.9 seconds is that window. Le sigh. Guess I'll have to pony up for mo' powah and the 136/2430 TTE* reclass.
Here's a 2:02.7, since I didn't record my fastest lap as per usual.
https://youtu.be/pMXXwEwDPvg
Good ****! Get some R7s for next year, they can be worth ~2-3 seconds over a typical 200tw..... you're within the window!
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10-31-2017, 09:55 AM
#1092
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Bama
Posts: 462
Total Cats: 120
I didn't flash these tots on Bourbon St for nothing!
I guess we'll see, RS4s are petty damn fast though. Just gonna have to get real tires and send it. With my lack of hp I need all the corner speed I can get.
I guess we'll see, RS4s are petty damn fast though. Just gonna have to get real tires and send it. With my lack of hp I need all the corner speed I can get.
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10-31-2017, 12:47 PM
#1094
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Bama
Posts: 462
Total Cats: 120
I was right around 2410-2420 on low fuel before I depowered, so now that minus a whopping 5lbs or so. The seat will be another ~20lbs and get me a bit closer to 2375 min comp weight, but that's negligible difference. I wanted to try and get by with a proper tune at 127whp, but it's real obvious I need the 136whp to hang in there. When I talked to Sonny he said the same thing. I wish tracks carried e85, I'd just slap bigger injectors in, tune, and be done with it. It's available within about 30 minutes of every track I go to, but that's still a bit of a hike until I get a truck and can haul fuel.
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10-31-2017, 02:39 PM
#1096
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Bama
Posts: 462
Total Cats: 120
Current
+7 Xidas w/ RB/Supermiata sways
+3 4.77 torsen
+2 ELBJ
+4 Spoiler (pointless with no air dam afaik, just using to use points)
+3 tires (225 RS4/RC1 or 205 R7)
Ideal - POWWAAHHHH
+5 Xida w/ stock sways
+3 4.77 torsen
+3 205 R7
get camber with sadfab bushings.
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10-31-2017, 04:24 PM
#1097
Elite Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,533
Total Cats: 741
Those pre-approved no-asterisk reclasses are porky. 2375/127 is 18.7:1 if you're right on the limits. That's a 2lb per horsepower handicap before you spend any points. If you leave a cushion, you're below 19:1 pretty quick, which is TTF.
I don't recommend anybody use those no-asterisk reclasses unless they're actually trying to bring a double dipped SM over, or building a min/maxed airdam/2d wing car.
Dropping the ELBJs and spoiler to pay for an asterisk on the reclass will get you down in the 17.5-17.8:1 range which is known to be very competitive if the rest of the points are spent well.
I don't recommend anybody use those no-asterisk reclasses unless they're actually trying to bring a double dipped SM over, or building a min/maxed airdam/2d wing car.
Dropping the ELBJs and spoiler to pay for an asterisk on the reclass will get you down in the 17.5-17.8:1 range which is known to be very competitive if the rest of the points are spent well.
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11-02-2017, 10:15 AM
#1100
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Bama
Posts: 462
Total Cats: 120
If it makes more power than the 'Yata, might be worth building for CoTA Nationals next year. If anyone cared that much. Pretty cool that Nats will be in my backyard, but due to the price of that track I have yet to even drive it in my own car
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