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Old 10-16-2013, 11:06 AM   #1
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Default Anyone with FI add a square top IM?

I'm curious if you get the same gains with the square top on cars with FI

Thanks!
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:28 PM   #2
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Yes.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:28 PM   #3
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no never.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:59 PM   #4
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Read the last few pages of Soviet's build thread.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:07 PM   #5
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Andrew, can't seem to find it
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:31 PM   #6
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Also look for the FM dyno test on m.net. However they didn't rev it above 7200. Most of the gains are >6000 RPM.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:36 PM   #7
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basically you lose a couple wtq at various points in the lowend/midrange and pick up a BIG chunk of power and torque past 6500
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:37 PM   #8
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how does this belong in the race prep section?
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:06 PM   #9
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He is obviously Richard Allistor or Dougie Sweetmaster
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Also look for the FM dyno test on m.net. However they didn't rev it above 7200. Most of the gains are >6000 RPM.
FM did a forced induction squaretop test?
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Andrew, can't seem to find it
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...ild-you-61522/
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:51 PM   #12
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I don't think soviets thread really gives us any info specifically on the squaretop either - too many other changed variables.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
how does this belong in the race prep section?
You're right, it probably doesn't. I just do HPDEs. There are so many knowledgable people in here that I figured I'd get some solid answers. I just bought one, in the for sale section, a minute ago.

Thanks to all
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:10 PM   #14
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I used one in the build I just finished but there were no before numbers, actually we're still waiting to get to the dyno for numbers at all. But what 18psi stated above about power seems to be the common result.
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:31 AM   #15
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Probably hasn't been tried much because 0.5 psi more will do the same trick...
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:39 PM   #16
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For the most part yes, but once you approach the flow limit up top, .5psi more actually won't do the same trick, and/or this would be like uncorking "free" horsepower that is otherwise choked up
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:02 PM   #17
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It's not free, it's $500
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
For the most part yes, but once you approach the flow limit up top, .5psi more actually won't do the same trick, and/or this would be like uncorking "free" horsepower that is otherwise choked up
Related: Has anyone actually put a number on this "flow limit up top" for the stock manifold? At what point does it choke under boost?

The way I read it quite some time ago, boost is actually a measurement of resistance to flow in the system. All other things being equal, 5psi on a BP4W with restrictive stock exhaust, log manifold & GT2560R is going to make vastly different power compared to 5psi on that same BP4W with a +1 valve ported head, tubular manifold, 3" exhaust... you get the idea.

Anything you can do to reduce resistance in the system will show benefits. With the squaretop vs stock, the question becomes "where do I see these benefits?" Is this is a street car that lives most of its time around 4k with occasional trips to redline, or does it spend most of its life around 6k for 20-30 minutes at a time BECAUSERACECAR?

The $400~500 pricetag of the squaretop might be worth it to the racecar guys but that same $400 buys you a lot of goodies on a street/hpde/autox build.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
It's not free, it's $500
haha ok valid point
Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
Related: Has anyone actually put a number on this "flow limit up top" for the stock manifold? At what point does it choke under boost?

The way I read it quite some time ago, boost is actually a measurement of resistance to flow in the system. All other things being equal, 5psi on a BP4W with restrictive stock exhaust, log manifold & GT2560R is going to make vastly different power compared to 5psi on that same BP4W with a +1 valve ported head, tubular manifold, 3" exhaust... you get the idea.

Anything you can do to reduce resistance in the system will show benefits. With the squaretop vs stock, the question becomes "where do I see these benefits?" Is this is a street car that lives most of its time around 4k with occasional trips to redline, or does it spend most of its life around 6k for 20-30 minutes at a time BECAUSERACECAR?

The $400~500 pricetag of the squaretop might be worth it to the racecar guys but that same $400 buys you a lot of goodies on a street/hpde/autox build.
Exactly. I think most the street/daily driver VICS guys don't really even need this thing. Heck, even the VTCS guys don't really need one for the street (and one of the reasons I'm going to try using my vtcs mani at 1st and only switch to the squaretop if I'm unhappy with it). The track guys love this cause its OEM, bolts right up, and actually holds together unlike some of the honda mani's we've seen. And those running setups that make serious top end power obviously want it too because the stocker chokes up pretty dramatically (at least the vtcs does) past 300 or so.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:18 PM   #20
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V: My offer still stands to loan you my spare VICS manifold when you get around to testing the VTCS vs Squaretop. I'd be nice to see all 3 on the same testbed with some 100kpa+ data
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