Brake question...
11-08-2013, 01:37 PM
#64
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The nb master cylinders are all the same bore of 15/16", only defference is the abs masters have 2 hols, and the non abs has 3.
My broblem is the abs and stock nb booster has a higher boost ratio. Should move more fluid with less pedal effort. The non abs sport and msm have less ratio than the sport abs/stock nb, yet more than the na boosters. Different mc bores arent going to make the proper difference.
However, what about addding some kind of restriction to the hose, so that the booster pulls less vacume? If that would work, still not the proper fix, i'll use the abs booster and get the proper master. Replace the booster when i find one.
My broblem is the abs and stock nb booster has a higher boost ratio. Should move more fluid with less pedal effort. The non abs sport and msm have less ratio than the sport abs/stock nb, yet more than the na boosters. Different mc bores arent going to make the proper difference.
However, what about addding some kind of restriction to the hose, so that the booster pulls less vacume? If that would work, still not the proper fix, i'll use the abs booster and get the proper master. Replace the booster when i find one.
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11-08-2013, 03:13 PM
#66
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^ Please explain what you bring to this conversation, or at least tell me what they told me?
What you seem to realize is the question i asked, you reply with no tral redponse and thus a worthless post.
The only thing said is i should use the sport booster, i have one, though it is abs. That is what my previos questions revolved around.
What you seem to realize is the question i asked, you reply with no tral redponse and thus a worthless post.
The only thing said is i should use the sport booster, i have one, though it is abs. That is what my previos questions revolved around.
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11-08-2013, 03:16 PM
#67
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The replys given were keep stock 1.6 brakes, well thats not happening. The question is whether or not the abs booster will sufice, and was told no.
Not one person acctualy gave insight into my question. But i took the advice, and i will get the proper booster when it's avaliable.
Not one person acctualy gave insight into my question. But i took the advice, and i will get the proper booster when it's avaliable.
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11-08-2013, 04:45 PM
#68
Read:
Now that you have read, figure out what you need to keep the same pedal feel. Of course, I have to get on the soap box here and bitch at you for being silly, so you are welcome to read the rest of my message or just ignore it and continue ******* with your brakes.
You have a serious misconception about calipers (and probably braking in general)...I am going to keep this as simple as possible and trying not to get too technical...I promise you, you will get minimal difference in braking force with different calipers. Stopping distance/braking threshold is all in the tires (given an applied force ie from the pads). If you don't have the traction to slow down, then you will just lock up. Calipers (ie aftermarket 4 piston) are nice because they provide even force on the pad (even wear), larger pads (longer life), and maybe lighter.
What I am saying is, running calipers from the sport, 1.6 or the 1.8 will make no difference at all for you. This is especially true because you don't even know how to threshold brake yet.
I really think you are going to go out to your track event and laugh at yourself for all this **** because its too stupid. Bigger isn't always better, but you know that right? that's why you are driving a miata.
It turns out there are at least 3 boosters that were used in the Miata, and I didn't expect some of the variations. Here's how it breaks down.
1990-00: 4.74:1 <- this is a bit approximate, as Mazda gives a range of output pressures as acceptable
2001-05 non-Sport and Sport with ABS, except for MSM: 9.7:1. Yes, that's about double. This booster is visibly fatter, and I suspect it has dual diaphragms inside instead of a single.
2001-05 Sport without ABS and MSM: 6.4:1
There's more to it than the boost ratio, of course. That larger master cylinder in the 2001-05 cars means less pedal travel and more effort with a given caliper size. Taking both the master cylinder size and the boost ratio into account, here's how it shakes out.
1990-97:754-796 psi of line pressure for 44 lb-ft
2001-02 non-Sport and 2001-05 ABS: 1038 psi of line pressure for 44 lb-ft on the pedal
2001-5 Sport non-ABS and MSM: 638 psi for 44 lb-ft
1990-00: 4.74:1 <- this is a bit approximate, as Mazda gives a range of output pressures as acceptable
2001-05 non-Sport and Sport with ABS, except for MSM: 9.7:1. Yes, that's about double. This booster is visibly fatter, and I suspect it has dual diaphragms inside instead of a single.
2001-05 Sport without ABS and MSM: 6.4:1
There's more to it than the boost ratio, of course. That larger master cylinder in the 2001-05 cars means less pedal travel and more effort with a given caliper size. Taking both the master cylinder size and the boost ratio into account, here's how it shakes out.
1990-97:754-796 psi of line pressure for 44 lb-ft
2001-02 non-Sport and 2001-05 ABS: 1038 psi of line pressure for 44 lb-ft on the pedal
2001-5 Sport non-ABS and MSM: 638 psi for 44 lb-ft
You have a serious misconception about calipers (and probably braking in general)...I am going to keep this as simple as possible and trying not to get too technical...I promise you, you will get minimal difference in braking force with different calipers. Stopping distance/braking threshold is all in the tires (given an applied force ie from the pads). If you don't have the traction to slow down, then you will just lock up. Calipers (ie aftermarket 4 piston) are nice because they provide even force on the pad (even wear), larger pads (longer life), and maybe lighter.
What I am saying is, running calipers from the sport, 1.6 or the 1.8 will make no difference at all for you. This is especially true because you don't even know how to threshold brake yet.
I really think you are going to go out to your track event and laugh at yourself for all this **** because its too stupid. Bigger isn't always better, but you know that right? that's why you are driving a miata.
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11-08-2013, 05:46 PM
#69
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^ Please explain what you bring to this conversation, or at least tell me what they told me?
What you seem to realize is the question i asked, you reply with no tral redponse and thus a worthless post.
The only thing said is i should use the sport booster, i have one, though it is abs. That is what my previos questions revolved around.
What you seem to realize is the question i asked, you reply with no tral redponse and thus a worthless post.
The only thing said is i should use the sport booster, i have one, though it is abs. That is what my previos questions revolved around.
Here's what I've brought to the discussion: I told you where you could get the cheapest Sport Brake MC and Booster with Mazda P/Ns and the price of both.
When asked the question: "Do you have an ABS booster?"
You responded with, verbatim:
The nb master cylinders are all the same bore of 15/16", only defference is the abs masters have 2 hols, and the non abs has 3.
My broblem is the abs and stock nb booster has a higher boost ratio. Should move more fluid with less pedal effort. The non abs sport and msm have less ratio than the sport abs/stock nb, yet more than the na boosters. Different mc bores arent going to make the proper difference.
However, what about addding some kind of restriction to the hose, so that the booster pulls less vacume? If that would work, still not the proper fix, i'll use the abs booster and get the proper master. Replace the booster when i find one.
My broblem is the abs and stock nb booster has a higher boost ratio. Should move more fluid with less pedal effort. The non abs sport and msm have less ratio than the sport abs/stock nb, yet more than the na boosters. Different mc bores arent going to make the proper difference.
However, what about addding some kind of restriction to the hose, so that the booster pulls less vacume? If that would work, still not the proper fix, i'll use the abs booster and get the proper master. Replace the booster when i find one.
But hey, keep making belligerent barely intelligible posts that aren't cogent. I'm sure that the dozen people who have taken time out of their day to help you wouldn't mind.
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11-08-2013, 08:15 PM
#70
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Read:
Now that you have read, figure out what you need to keep the same pedal feel. Of course, I have to get on the soap box here and bitch at you for being silly, so you are welcome to read the rest of my message or just ignore it and continue ******* with your brakes.
You have a serious misconception about calipers (and probably braking in general)...I am going to keep this as simple as possible and trying not to get too technical...I promise you, you will get minimal difference in braking force with different calipers. Stopping distance/braking threshold is all in the tires (given an applied force ie from the pads). If you don't have the traction to slow down, then you will just lock up. Calipers (ie aftermarket 4 piston) are nice because they provide even force on the pad (even wear), larger pads (longer life), and maybe lighter.
What I am saying is, running calipers from the sport, 1.6 or the 1.8 will make no difference at all for you. This is especially true because you don't even know how to threshold brake yet.
I really think you are going to go out to your track event and laugh at yourself for all this **** because its too stupid. Bigger isn't always better, but you know that right? that's why you are driving a miata.
Now that you have read, figure out what you need to keep the same pedal feel. Of course, I have to get on the soap box here and bitch at you for being silly, so you are welcome to read the rest of my message or just ignore it and continue ******* with your brakes.
You have a serious misconception about calipers (and probably braking in general)...I am going to keep this as simple as possible and trying not to get too technical...I promise you, you will get minimal difference in braking force with different calipers. Stopping distance/braking threshold is all in the tires (given an applied force ie from the pads). If you don't have the traction to slow down, then you will just lock up. Calipers (ie aftermarket 4 piston) are nice because they provide even force on the pad (even wear), larger pads (longer life), and maybe lighter.
What I am saying is, running calipers from the sport, 1.6 or the 1.8 will make no difference at all for you. This is especially true because you don't even know how to threshold brake yet.
I really think you are going to go out to your track event and laugh at yourself for all this **** because its too stupid. Bigger isn't always better, but you know that right? that's why you are driving a miata.
Or I can upgrade to a bigger setup, for the booster, calipers, and brackets, I have paid less than $100. Rotors, pads, and a new MS will be $300. So $400 for brakes that won't need to be touched for a pretty long time, even after boost I will only really NEED different pads.
As it is now, I can't even lock the 1.6 brakes if I wanted too. The only thing missing is a msm or non abs sport booster. And then I will have a complete sport brake setup as it should be. I take your advice as well as everyone else's, most of you if not all have track experience and I do not. Really nothing more to it than that.
Use spell checker.
Here's what I've brought to the discussion: I told you where you could get the cheapest Sport Brake MC and Booster with Mazda P/Ns and the price of both.
When asked the question: "Do you have an ABS booster?"
You responded with, verbatim:
Thanks for clarifying. That's really clear when you could have just said: "I have an ABS Sport booster and I'm tracking down a Sport MC."
But hey, keep making belligerent barely intelligible posts that aren't cogent. I'm sure that the dozen people who have taken time out of their day to help you wouldn't mind.
Here's what I've brought to the discussion: I told you where you could get the cheapest Sport Brake MC and Booster with Mazda P/Ns and the price of both.
When asked the question: "Do you have an ABS booster?"
You responded with, verbatim:
Thanks for clarifying. That's really clear when you could have just said: "I have an ABS Sport booster and I'm tracking down a Sport MC."
But hey, keep making belligerent barely intelligible posts that aren't cogent. I'm sure that the dozen people who have taken time out of their day to help you wouldn't mind.
MY problem was with my question, that was never really answered. That was; using a booster with a higher ratio 9.X:1 from the ABS sport, would using a smaller master cylinder(7/8") make the difference needed. I didn't and still don't understand completely that relation between the two. However I will be getting the 15/16" master and the proper booster when I find one.
Once again I do apologize.
And to everyone else, appreciate the help and advice given.
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