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Old 01-21-2012, 02:25 PM   #1
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Default Camlock vs latch type harnesses

Is it worth the hassle to save a buck on the harnesses? I've got a out of spec 4 point Saebelt. I want to upgrade to a 6-point. Most HPDE events require identical setups for driver and passenger. A Latch harness is half the cost, but the only experience I have with a latch is in my dads old biplane and it was simple enough to use. My current four point is a camlock.

I guess I could just get the crotch belts for the current harness and by a latch for the passenger. I'll only go to 1-3 events per year. I hate to spend th emoney for the passenger belt when it will sit unused accept for the occasional track event and passenger around town.

EDIT: Where can you belt belt components. i.e. just the crotch belts???
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Old 01-21-2012, 05:49 PM   #2
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No. Latch and link is a huge pain in the ***. G-Force sells FIA-rated 6-point camlock belts for under $200, so there's no excuse.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:10 PM   #3
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G Force sucks, you want Crow. They are better in every way and re-web for like $50.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
No. Latch and link is a huge pain in the ***. G-Force sells FIA-rated 6-point camlock belts for under $200, so there's no excuse.
Schroth Clubmans are also under $200.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:21 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
G Force sucks, you want Crow. They are better in every way and re-web for like $50.
They look identical to me, but G-Force is FIA certified so you don't have to mess with them for 5 years. What's better about Crow?
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:43 PM   #6
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Schroth Clubmans are also under $200.
Thats what I use, I would say the only downside is the bulky adjusters, but thats getting picky for the price.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:49 PM   #7
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I have an extra G-Force I could sell that is good until 2014. Camlock 6point. Although I wn't be back home until Feb 9th-ish.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:38 PM   #8
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How about pull-down vs pull-up style harness?
What is easier for use in a miata?

-Raj
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:41 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by redrider706 View Post
How about pull-down vs pull-up style harness?
What is easier for use in a miata?

-Raj
Pull-ups are easier, IF the adjuster sits correctly, which it almost never does. I use pull-downs in both our cars, and I just have the adjuster straps run through the seat holes. You pull up and use the side of the seat as leverage to tighten the belt.
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Old 01-22-2012, 12:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redrider706 View Post
How about pull-down vs pull-up style harness?
What is easier for use in a miata?

-Raj
I went with pull down because G-Force's pull down is FIA rated (5 year) where the pull up is not (SFI 2 year). I have no complaints with the pull down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
Is it worth the hassle to save a buck on the harnesses? I've got a out of spec 4 point Saebelt. I want to upgrade to a 6-point. Most HPDE events require identical setups for driver and passenger. A Latch harness is half the cost, but the only experience I have with a latch is in my dads old biplane and it was simple enough to use. My current four point is a camlock.

I guess I could just get the crotch belts for the current harness and by a latch for the passenger. I'll only go to 1-3 events per year. I hate to spend th emoney for the passenger belt when it will sit unused accept for the occasional track event and passenger around town.

EDIT: Where can you belt belt components. i.e. just the crotch belts???
I have cam lock in the Miata and latch and link in the dune buggy. The cam lock is no-comparison nicer to live with. On the Miata, the sub harness mounts (via snap hooks and eyelets) to the same points as the lap belts, then go under the seat. My seat didn't have a place for the sub harness to come up through it, so I picked a couple stitches out and ran it through.
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Old 01-22-2012, 12:48 AM   #11
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pull up for the lap belts, pull down for the shoulder.

camlock is worth it. Scroth Clubman is a good choice. Probably the best of the "cheap" stuff. I actually like the shoulder harness adjuster more than the profi, its smoother for some reason, while the Profi lets go very quickly.

Not sure if its really an advantage, but it could be good for peace of mind. The clubman uses 3" belts all around, while the profi uses 2" sub and waist harnesses.

I currently run a profi for the driver and a clubman for the passenger...Profi is really comfy. I daily with it on and can't say I have any complaints.
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:42 AM   #12
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Pull down camlock is the only way to go. Leave the latch style in the 60's where it belongs. I had one latch harness and it hit the trash can within 2-3 uses.
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:04 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I went with pull down because G-Force's pull down is FIA rated (5 year) where the pull up is not (SFI 2 year). I have no complaints with the pull down.
That's the same reason I went with the G-force pull-downs. OTOH, for just HPDE use nobody will be checking expiration dates unless the po-po decide to hassle you at NJMP, if they're still doing that. I found it a bit of a PITA to adjust the lap belts which always seemed to loosen themselves between sessions, but then I got those springs that keep tension on the adjusters so they don't slip, i.e. it now takes a concerted effort to move them. One they stopped slipping loose all the time, the pull-downs stopped annoying me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
Most HPDE events require identical setups for driver and passenger.

EDIT: Where can you belt belt components. i.e. just the crotch belts???
You'll be fine with "equivalent." I don't think you'll get booted from an HPDE for running a camlock on your side and a latch style for the passenger as long as they're both equivalent 5/6-pt. But latches are annoying and you should be kind to your instructors and not cheap out on a one-time expense of another $75 or so. If you look around, there are NIB 2011 dated G-force 6-pt camlock harnesses discounted to $130 (usually $155) since they're already into their second year of the FIA cert, but you probably don't care about expiration anyway.

You can email Sabelt or a Sabelt dealer, but unless there's another slot in your existing camlock to accommodate the tab of a nut strap, anything else you do to add one is probably going to be janky as hell.

If I were you I'd just get 2 sets of the discounted G-forces and be done with it. That will get you on track with decent camlocks for both seats. There are nicer harnesses than G-force if you want to spend the money, but I've been happy with mine and I'll be keeping them until such time as I feel the need for HANS compatibility.
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:12 AM   #14
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My passenger side is a latch link. The instructor uses it for one session and then says "you're good to go". I'd like him in there long but we've been a little thin on instructors lately...

Anyways, it was worth the $80 savings in my mind.

However, they are indeed ugly, big, heavy, and inconvenient. That's my passenger's problem though. I was surprised that my last instructor had never seen one, kinda says something about how "rare" they are today.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:05 AM   #15
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Paid $160 cad for a 1 yr old omp fia belt.
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
Not sure if its really an advantage, but it could be good for peace of mind. The clubman uses 3" belts all around, while the profi uses 2" sub and waist harnesses.
2" is safer and a bunch more comfortable. I uses Schroth 2" in all the race cars. Enduro belts in the enduro cars. Just ordered G-Force FIA 6pts in our street car project. Wanted 2" there but too but didn't want to spend the extra coin on the DD.

One thing that's helps make 5 & 6 pts more useful on dual duty cars is to swap the cam lock to the inboard lap belt instead of the crotch. Easier to use for street driving where you don't always want to deal with the crotch belt. I just tuck that belt back through the seat and it stays hidden until we do a track day.

OP, Camlocks. No brainer
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
They look identical to me, but G-Force is FIA certified so you don't have to mess with them for 5 years. What's better about Crow?
On the Crow harness the cam-lock lives on a lap belt (not the nut strap, think about genetic legacy injuries), the hasps around the cam lock on the Crow harness are far enough apart that it doesn't pinch fingers (passengers liked to do this in my car for some reason), and Crow will sell you HANS shoulder belts on the cheap...plus the cheap reweb fee.
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
On the Crow harness the cam-lock lives on a lap belt (not the nut strap, think about genetic legacy injuries), the hasps around the cam lock on the Crow harness are far enough apart that it doesn't pinch fingers (passengers liked to do this in my car for some reason), and Crow will sell you HANS shoulder belts on the cheap...plus the cheap reweb fee.
my g-force cam lock lives on a lap belt
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
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my g-force cam lock lives on a lap belt
Same here.
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:51 PM   #20
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So does mine. And the reweb fee had better be cheap, since you have to do it twice in 4 years to keep your harnesses up to date.
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