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Old 04-26-2016, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
Slowing from 100 to 50, puts the same amount of energy into the brakes regardless of how long it takes.

The difference is the pros do it more quickly, so the brakes have more time leading up to and after the braking event to cool down.
Yeah that makes more sense.
Originally Posted by afm View Post
Hawk DTCs have corrosive dust. I don't think the HPS does, but it's not a good track pad.

If you were at Norcal SAAC, it may have been me who said that about Hawks. I must have mistakenly assumed you were using DTCs for the track.
Yup that's definitely you! Small world man.
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Old 04-26-2016, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by afm View Post
Hawk DTCs have corrosive dust. I don't think the HPS does, but it's not a good track pad.

If you were at Norcal SAAC, it may have been me who said that about Hawks. I must have mistakenly assumed you were using DTCs for the track.
The corrosive dust is iron. ALL race pads have a high iron content. A rotor will expel iron dust too. Iron rusts when wet. So if your running race pads wash the dust off if you get cought in the rain. Or just run black wheels and don't care.

Last edited by OGRacing; 04-26-2016 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 04-26-2016, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
Slowing from 100 to 50, puts the same amount of energy into the brakes regardless of how long it takes.

The difference is the pros do it more quickly, so the brakes have more time leading up to and after the braking event to cool down.
Yep. With dragging the pedal the components can leach heat. Heat can really get to the fluid.

some beginners have extra brake zones. Ive seen plently of guys brake where i am flat.
More experenced drivers will take a hypotetical turn at 80 and a beginner will take it at 40 so its a 100-80 vs a 80-40 stop. Trust me the higest rotor temp i ever recorded was from a first timer.1600* in the pits.


Originally Posted by ApexAddict View Post
What would turn away an instructor besides seats/harnesses? And yeah I found myself dragging the pedal a bit more than I should have in the beginning of the day. After a few sessions I realized my brake zones could be smaller and I could be much harder on the brakes. Also, my buddy told me Hawks HPS pads can hurt the paint on your wheels, is this true?
I advise them to follow the Nasa CCR. oem equipment isn't the best but there is noting you can do about it when working with drivers that have brand new bmw m3's for example. I advise instructors to walk if; they see a 4 point harness, the harnesses are not properly mounted, if the seat is aluminum (non-fia seat) and it's not braced, if the seat is missing bolts, if they see any tears in the equipment, and general things that involve poorly mounted or cared for equipment. i also advise them to ask how much pressure is in the tires. you would be surprised the answers we get to that one.

Last edited by OGRacing; 04-26-2016 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:07 PM
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I passed on a Viper coupe with bald 2008 date code tires on a rainy morning a year ago. Vipers don't have traction or stability control, either.
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
I advise them to follow the Nasa CCR. oem equipment isn't the best but there is noting you can do about it when working with drivers that have brand new bmw m3's for example. I advise instructors to walk if; they see a 4 point harness, the harnesses are not properly mounted, if the seat is aluminum (non-fia seat) and it's not braced, if the seat is missing bolts, if they see any tears in the equipment, and general things that involve poorly mounted or cared for equipment. i also advise them to ask how much pressure is in the tires. you would be surprised the answers we get to that one.
Okay that makes a lot of sense. Out of curiosity, what are some of the more ridiculous tire pressures you've heard of?
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I passed on a Viper coupe with bald 2008 date code tires on a rainy morning a year ago. Vipers don't have traction or stability control, either.
LOL wow that sounds like a death trap.
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Old 04-27-2016, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ApexAddict View Post
Okay that makes a lot of sense. Out of curiosity, what are some of the more ridiculous tire pressures you've heard of?
"You're car is really pushing a lot in these turns, what pressure are you running?"
"48psi. Steering feel is awesome!, but yeah, it's pushing a lot, the tires are kind of old though."
"Wait, 48psi hot? That's definitely too high. How old are the tires?"
"Um, I put them to 48psi this morning, it's what the sidewall says. Do they change as the day goes on? And well, the Corvette is an 05, so yeah, 11 years old. But only 11k miles on these puppies."

Some form of this conversation happens about once a year with someone on track. We usually try to catch it in tech with the newbs, and I think they've been good about mentioning this stuff in classroom, first session, etc. But there's still that one guy. Hell, we had an HPDE 1 dude insist he be in the racer's meeting last weekend because he drives a... yep.... corvette. (disclosure, I ******* love vettes, my brother has a Z06 as his main track car and he's a great driver/instructor, but damn, too many 50 year old wannabes).
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Old 04-27-2016, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ApexAddict View Post
Okay that makes a lot of sense. Out of curiosity, what are some of the more ridiculous tire pressures you've heard of?
​12 was probably the worst. a good friend was worried and said his car's handling was unpredictable. i took out the tire gauge to find out that he had 12 psi in his passenger side rear tire. the rest where around 21-28psi hot. It's stupid but something beginners easily overlook.

Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I passed on a Viper coupe with bald 2008 date code tires on a rainy morning a year ago. Vipers don't have traction or stability control, either.
I almost clobbered a Daytona prototype @ Daytona in the kink. Guy just bought the car. passed me like a champ on the outside of the first horseshoe. after that i thought he could drive, so i hung with him. heading into the kink he brakes hard, i'm normally flat so that was unexpected. i almost messed up 10G worth of carbon fiber with my plastic bumper.
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Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
Hopefully so, but let's hope it's never necessary. Experiencing your safety gear in action is ... not optimal.
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dasting View Post
"You're car is really pushing a lot in these turns, what pressure are you running?"
"48psi. Steering feel is awesome!, but yeah, it's pushing a lot, the tires are kind of old though."
"Wait, 48psi hot? That's definitely too high. How old are the tires?"
"Um, I put them to 48psi this morning, it's what the sidewall says. Do they change as the day goes on? And well, the Corvette is an 05, so yeah, 11 years old. But only 11k miles on these puppies."

Some form of this conversation happens about once a year with someone on track. We usually try to catch it in tech with the newbs, and I think they've been good about mentioning this stuff in classroom, first session, etc. But there's still that one guy. Hell, we had an HPDE 1 dude insist he be in the racer's meeting last weekend because he drives a... yep.... corvette. (disclosure, I ******* love vettes, my brother has a Z06 as his main track car and he's a great driver/instructor, but damn, too many 50 year old wannabes).
Hahaha wow that's pretty bad...I did not expect to hear 48 cold lmfao
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
​12 was probably the worst. a good friend was worried and said his car's handling was unpredictable. i took out the tire gauge to find out that he had 12 psi in his passenger side rear tire. the rest where around 21-28psi hot. It's stupid but something beginners easily overlook.



I almost clobbered a Daytona prototype @ Daytona in the kink. Guy just bought the car. passed me like a champ on the outside of the first horseshoe. after that i thought he could drive, so i hung with him. heading into the kink he brakes hard, i'm normally flat so that was unexpected. i almost messed up 10G worth of carbon fiber with my plastic bumper.
Holy **** that's gnarly. Well some cars can be flat through turns that other cars simply have to tap the brakes before they dive into the turn.
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:10 PM
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I had 2 Korean college students, one with poor English and one with very poor English at my last event. The weather was threatening to rain and a handful of instructors didn't show up so they were both assigned to me. Sigh. The one with poor English and 3 trackdays under his belt was supposed to follow me and the zero trackdays guy who didn't understand my words around Sebring. That's 17 turns to learn, folks, and some of them need serious braking or you just aren't going to make it through them. They were both new to the track and at some point in the day I was supposed to switch and ride with the more experienced guy, but nope. The newbie was so frighteningly inconsistent I couldn't leave him alone. Braking early sometimes and then very late sometimes, closing on cars that were beginning to brake because he wasn't applying enough pedal force even though last time through the same zone he over braked (broke?). I was a wreck trying to keep us from having one. Brake, Brake, BRAKE, MOAR BRAKE! I was hoarse even though I had an intercom.
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ApexAddict View Post
Holy **** that's gnarly. Well some cars can be flat through turns that other cars simply have to tap the brakes before they dive into the turn.
It appeared that everyone took home a story from that guy. When i got to an event #1 i try to prepare the car as much as i can before i head to the track. #2 i try not to be "that guy". lots of point by's, giving of extra room. I race TT so sometimes staying to close can screw your lap, sometimes the draft, or following a faster car helps.
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Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
Hopefully so, but let's hope it's never necessary. Experiencing your safety gear in action is ... not optimal.
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
...I was a wreck trying to keep us from having one. Brake, Brake, BRAKE, MOAR BRAKE! I was hoarse even though I had an intercom.
Yep, been there too. Blipshift ran my buddy's design two weeks ago on the very subject.
https://www.blipshift.com/products/H...m_campaign=new
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Old 04-27-2016, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I had 2 Korean college students, one with poor English and one with very poor English at my last event. The weather was threatening to rain and a handful of instructors didn't show up so they were both assigned to me. Sigh. The one with poor English and 3 trackdays under his belt was supposed to follow me and the zero trackdays guy who didn't understand my words around Sebring. That's 17 turns to learn, folks, and some of them need serious braking or you just aren't going to make it through them. They were both new to the track and at some point in the day I was supposed to switch and ride with the more experienced guy, but nope. The newbie was so frighteningly inconsistent I couldn't leave him alone. Braking early sometimes and then very late sometimes, closing on cars that were beginning to brake because he wasn't applying enough pedal force even though last time through the same zone he over braked (broke?). I was a wreck trying to keep us from having one. Brake, Brake, BRAKE, MOAR BRAKE! I was hoarse even though I had an intercom.

i wouldn't have gotten into that car. if a student cant understand what i'm saying, i'm not going to risk my butt to try to teach him. he really needs a bilingual instructor, if the organisation doesn't have one tough cookies.
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Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
Hopefully so, but let's hope it's never necessary. Experiencing your safety gear in action is ... not optimal.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I had 2 Korean college students, one with poor English and one with very poor English at my last event. The weather was threatening to rain and a handful of instructors didn't show up so they were both assigned to me. Sigh. The one with poor English and 3 trackdays under his belt was supposed to follow me and the zero trackdays guy who didn't understand my words around Sebring. That's 17 turns to learn, folks, and some of them need serious braking or you just aren't going to make it through them. They were both new to the track and at some point in the day I was supposed to switch and ride with the more experienced guy, but nope. The newbie was so frighteningly inconsistent I couldn't leave him alone. Braking early sometimes and then very late sometimes, closing on cars that were beginning to brake because he wasn't applying enough pedal force even though last time through the same zone he over braked (broke?). I was a wreck trying to keep us from having one. Brake, Brake, BRAKE, MOAR BRAKE! I was hoarse even though I had an intercom.
Hahaha that's a trip man. You're a brave soldier man **** that, I would've walked away man. I don't wanna be in the car when they put their car in the wall.
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
It appeared that everyone took home a story from that guy. When i got to an event #1 i try to prepare the car as much as i can before i head to the track. #2 i try not to be "that guy". lots of point by's, giving of extra room. I race TT so sometimes staying to close can screw your lap, sometimes the draft, or following a faster car helps.
Exactly. I'm there with you man, if there's a faster driver behind you then point them the **** by. There's no reason to hold them up, if they weren't behind you the previous lap and now they're in your rear view mirror, chances are they're faster than you. Plus, like you said it can be a learning experience driving behind someone who's faster than you.
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
i wouldn't have gotten into that car. if a student cant understand what i'm saying, i'm not going to risk my butt to try to teach him. he really needs a bilingual instructor, if the organisation doesn't have one tough cookies.
100% agree with this.
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I passed on a Viper coupe with bald 2008 date code tires on a rainy morning a year ago. Vipers don't have traction or stability control, either.
Probably could have passed it walking too right? I'm just assuming it was in a ditch.
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Probably could have passed it walking too right? I'm just assuming it was in a ditch.
I did pass it walking. I passed by saying, "I don't feel comfortable going out in this car in the rain." I told that to the student who had just acquired the car and was unfamiliar with its handling characteristics and he took it well. He agreed with me that he didn't want to hurt the car. We did go out in the afternoon once the track was dry and he proved to be a smooth, careful driver.

But yeah, a Viper wouldn't make it out of the wet grass in the paddock area faster than you could walk.
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Old 04-28-2016, 12:18 PM
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I just don't see a viper being a fun track car unless you're a very talented driver.
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Old 04-28-2016, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ApexAddict View Post
I just don't see a viper being a fun track car unless you're a very talented driver.
and loaded. $$$

Had a local guy trash his 2015 viper when a wheel broke at Savannah. I grabbed him after the crash and checked his gear. he said "i already have another on on the way". that guy can afford to race vipers. :P
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Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
Hopefully so, but let's hope it's never necessary. Experiencing your safety gear in action is ... not optimal.
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Old 04-28-2016, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
and loaded. $$$

Had a local guy trash his 2015 viper when a wheel broke at Savannah. I grabbed him after the crash and checked his gear. he said "i already have another on on the way". that guy can afford to race vipers. :P
Lol wow, speaking of vipers...here's a video of me from this past weekend. I was having some fun playing around with a viper at Thunderhill.
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Old 06-30-2017, 10:56 AM
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Here's another good resource for track day newbies. Maybe add to the first post?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
grm_logbook2017_small.pdf (554.4 KB, 148 views)
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Old 08-07-2018, 11:59 PM
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For those who want to learn the craft, just make sure the car is well maintained with good street tires, fresh brake pads, fresh brake fluid. spend the money on track time not mods, especially not on big brakes! in my opinion, brakes are the best way to retard ones learning curve. Decent rotors, stock or performance street pads, and fresh fluid. beyond that you are only slowing your progression. Managing brake fade is a slippery slope, but in my opinion it can help force drivers to not over brake and learn momentum.

If you intend this to be your hobby embrace the process, spend the money on track days, mods are secondary to maintenance and consumables. Don't mod the hell out of a car only to realize you cant afford to put tires and brakes on it. I've had many friends get into track days and quickly washout and quit due to skyrocketing costs. talk to people who've been tracking for 20 years. they either have **** you money or they've figured out a way to manage both car development and consumables responsibly.

My advise is to get several seasons of 5 or 10 track days each in a slow car under your belt so you understand how to manage and budget consumables and mods. you'll get way more out of driving a slow car fast then a fast car slow. get on track and prioritize changes based on your budget. don't make the mistake of blowing a bunch of money on the car before ever going on track. Sounds pretty lame I know but considering what is spent on track cars, the wash our rate is unbelievable. Your track car project will never be done, please don't try to tell yourself only xyz parts are needed. Please don't get a fancy paint job! for some reason new paint is a tire wall magnet!

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