Yeah so if you want to continue down this stupid path, what do you think would happen when the fuel type is "indeterminate". Off to the appropriate higher class. Same outcome that was offered, but refused by the participant.

https://photos.smugmug.com/2018-Even...31136_o-XL.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...dbcd94ee84.jpg

Look, i'm only trying to point out that DQing because the organizers didn't foresee an electric car entering is silly and is on the orgnanizers. This race is all about times with very few rules. The fuel one is debatable, it's not a well thought out rule set, which is not the driver's fault. I understand protesting when there is cheating, but it's not like they put a Tesla shell on an F1 - this is a production sedan.

Great shots Ryan!

More great shots. That photographer knows his stuff.

Look, it's called integrity of the rules. Do you know what the original downfall of Redline Time Attack was back in the 2008 time frame? It seriously stunted the growth of time attack in the USA because it became a joke.

Yes the event is about lap times, but "very few rules" is not true for the class that they were competing in. Enthusiast is the most restricted class in the series. It honestly is a very well thought out ruleset, with tons of time, effort, trial and error put into them, and one unexpected and unintentional result of one rule doesn't mean otherwise. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

What is the driver's fault is not reading the rules beforehand and getting a written response from the tech steward, because if I had an EV and I saw that rule I would definitely be asking for clarification on that.

Yeah it was chickenshit to protest for that reason, but it happened, and the interpretation of the rules was relayed and ultimately enforced. They'll be changing for 2019 so that this doesn't happen again and EV's can compete, and it's over, so let's agree to move on and get back to Miata stuff.

This needs to be some sort of promotion material. I mean look at these cars Emilio and Tarek lifting wheels in corners and Ryan ploughing pebbles with so much downforce even though his springs are basically just solid.
Serious racing, serious tuning, serious fun.
Fucking brilliant work guys.
Hopefully there will be more events I can stream and watch you in action.

Its still mental that Ryan did it all on normal tyres too.

Different places around the track.
Emilio and Tarek are lifting wheels off the ground in Magic Mountain and Bus Stop, both are common places to do so.
Ryan's pic is in the braking zone into Sunset, so a nose dive is expected.

I did realised the were not in the same place on track (although I'm a little sad Ryan's isn't just balls out aero downforce :D)
My point is all of the photos speak volumes about the track based fun this car provides.
Their respective places within their categories goes to show the dedication, planning and ability these folk and their supporters have.

:bigtu:

RS motors recap is nutty.

Blown motor on Lap 1, day 1.
Trailer car to RS Motors West(where ever that is)
Swap engine from a donor street car
Blow headgasket on street motor on Lap 2, day 2
Swap headgasket in pits, day 2.
Make first hot laps in last session of the event
Run a 1:40.5 for podium.


If you guys didn't see it at SEMA, you need to go to Speedring or a CSCS event up in canada to see the Canjam Subaru. Its awesome.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...50d86a71f4.jpg

The aero on Vegas was built without rub strips because we ran out of time. That said we did set min ground clearance every where to allow the body roll and pitch the suspension would generate. Other than the 3-4 two offs I had, there was no scraping underneath. What's interesting is that we didn't bottom heavily and the car actually felt buttery, well controlled with the gargantuan 1800/900 rates and huge 3 piece sway bar set up. Ride height was much higher and 1/2" raked. We took some educated guesses on the whole suspension setup and pretty much bailed it. We did much the same for Ryan's car and he was pretty close right off the trailer, dialing it in perfectly during the event.

seems like a better strategy for TA would be to start the race with your slow/reliable backup motor- get some laps and setup done THEN swap in the time-bomb and go for glory.

That said- why is the formula for TA small extremely boosted engines? why not build around a less stressed chevy v8 that is somewhat reliable- allowing more time to setup the car and run laps vs wrenching all weekend to get one hot lap? maybe I'm an idiot.



either way- great work to everyone and it's fun to watch these cars develop over the internet.

@dcamp2 I think Moti summed up the V8 idea. No replacement for displacement in terms of power potential but this is also a mass thing. 4 pot is lighter than a V6 which is also lighter than a V8. Whilst shooting for a power to weight ratio a boosted engine is easier (although Emilio's is not but Vegas is special). There is also a "better the devil you know" aspect surely as anything stock will survive but conversely an engine you regularly sort to astounding power levels you will know the pitfalls.

Agree. But the top teams are obviously doing more than cobbling shit together. Why not start with something kind of reliable (say a 700hp v8) vs something you know is stupid (like a 700hp subaru motor). :)

Edit: I understand the desire to keep weight down, but if a v8 weighs 100 lbs more can't you just turn up the power a little and compensate using tires and aero?

There are competitors in urwd and lrwd with v8 swaps and they didn’t win. Leave it at that

and both top Miata teams mentioned the need for more power to continue going faster.

This assumes all materials are the same. A 4 cylinder iron block wont way notably less than a aluminum V6 or V8. I feel like the justification of Emilio building a high power BP and Canjam building a 700hp Subaru Boxer its about 10% actual reasons and 90% because they want to. And I think that is pretty awesome.

Except that reliable 700hp V8 won't stay that way, cause racers will just turn up the power until it breaks anyway.

I'd argue that a lot of the reason they are sticking with the products that they work on and support. Both are in the business of making those cars faster, so they need to push the limits instead of taking an "easier" route. Agreed though, it's awesome, and benefits the whole community (be it miata or subaru) :bigtu:

For us it's simple. We are an NA/ NB Miata specialist so we want to go as far as we can with the BP. We have not yet reached the limits of that long block or the tub. We may find that we can't make 600whp long enough to be useful. But we do have data points of power near those levels working well.
That we have virtually no oil consumption, top end still healthy after running 400whp at 7500 rpm for a while, leads us to believe we can make it work. Bottom end is the weak link in our build and I feel it's simply our implementation. IOW, the failure is not endemic, we are simply doing it wrong. There are a few BP motors out there making 550-650whp with many runs without bottom end failure. Power density of a boosted BP is not far from an LS race motor, even when I/C and intake plumbing is factored in. But yeah, not constrained to a BP, we would build a 6.0L LS dry sumped race motor of around 700whp. Or more accurately, we would have Katech build it for us.

But yeah, if we someday win the overall and reset the production car lap record at around 1:36 with a BP, that would be a day of days.

I looked at buying a NASCAR engine at some point, 830-850 HP all day long.
With that said, it's also north of 500 Lbs and will package horribly into the nose of the car, screwing up the weight balance and aero big time...
Small boosted engines are a very good way to make power with relatively low weight and good packaging, that's why you see them on time attack cars but also on the Porsche 919 LMP1.

You see, most of the parts that regular track day enthusiasts are buying from these vendors were developed on the track because these vendors and others raced their cars. If Emilio develops additional parts that aid in high-horsepower longevity in the motors that many of us use then they will likely trickle down into marketable components. This is especially true now that we have more reliable options for transmissions.

How many sets of hood vents have been sold after they were designed by The Pass to solve a problem he was having on the track?

Thanks for all the answers. I fully understand a Miata shop building/developing/racing BP's. Makes sense. I didn't know if Can Jam was a subaru shop or what.

I think two other drivers deserve big acknowledgement from this event. Tarek Latouf (white car pictured in prior posts) ran a 1:54.857 in Limited, that's faster than I ran in my first year at SLB in 2014. Great time for a first effort (that I'm aware of) in GTA. In Unlimited RWD, Ulrik Szirka (redish car below) did a 1:51.856 in his turbo 1.6L making 380whp. I'm not sure how that engine or trans held together but that would have been the Miata lap record just a few years ago, and is the 5th fastest Miata to lap Buttonwillow 13CW today. Monster time to come out of nowhere with. Congrats to both guys.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Miata-Lap...kSzirka-X2.jpg

Thanks Ryan!

It was my first effort to run my car at SLB. i was on a pit team for the last 2 slb events, so i got to see what works and doesnt work as far as the car goes. I for sure had the wrong tire choice on my car for outright time, but getting laps in for me was the most useful thing. i clocked about 40 laps this year total after not driving the track since 2013. Worked my way down from a 2:10 a few weeks prior down to my 1:54.857 during SLB.

Next year ill come with more aero, a few tweaks and better tires for the event and see what i can put down. Shooting for sub 1:50!

Hey now! I actually went the opposite route. My SB2.2 was detuned to make > 700HP but < 800HP and I'm keeping the RPM well under the 8600 that I have dyno sheets for (compression was also dropped some so I can run it on 100 octane gas with no concern about being on ragged edge for timing). I'm hoping the sucker lives forever with Jesel valvetrain, billet crank, billet mains, Carillo rods and JE pistons, but that's because I can't afford to keep rebuilding shit AND racing. Cooling is also an issue - I did not want to deal with a V8 AND a turbo or blower and the related cooling concerns (especially in the southeast in the summer), so I made the call to stay naturally aspirated. Moti is right on the weight (about 500 lbs dressed), and my trans and diff aren't featherweights either, but I'm also starting with a bigger car. I've just made the decision to chip away at that curb weight with DIY composites little by little once it's back up and running reliably. Fortunately, the decision to run Unlimited classes regardless of series makes that a little easier. I think 2400# race weight is realistic at some point.

Honestly though, scope creep is my biggest issue. I'm beginning to think I prefer fabricating to racing...

OT, but what's the weight of a fully dressed SB2.2?

"In Unlimited RWD, Ulrik Szirka (redish car below) did a 1:51.856 in his turbo 1.6L making 380whp"

Step very carefully away from the keyboard Ryan. You are VERY close to upsetting many people here.

A mass loss of cats and potential ban are next! :)

BUT I couldn't agree more with you, incredible how the whole Miata knowledge base is steaming forward.

Our 1600 turbo (270 whp) was a LOT of fun to drive and in some ways I still miss it.

Yes, Ulrik was flying along. I enjoyed watching you all immensely. Again I'd much prefer better coverage and better announcer (he was nice but seemed to be quite biased).

My best guesstimate is 470# or so depending on how its dressed and what's been done to the block. My block has had machine work done around the pan rail that took some weight out, and while the heads are physically larger, it's close due to the amount of material missing from the ports and valvetrain area. Intake is a wash, reciprocating assembly is lighter than most (knife edged crank, etc.). External oil pump vs full dry sump saves some more weight, then there's choice of alternator, pulleys, etc. that will move the number around.

It's a 1.6 and its making about 380/380. Kids only 17 as well, dude boogies.

Oldest looking 17yr old ive ever seen. Kinda looks like Emilio actually lol.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...24dfd4079.jpeg

That's his "allofit" face.

Thats unreal. Serious congrats to him!

Do we know any of the workings behind his motor? thats huge numbers from the 1600.

https://scontent-dfw5-2.cdninstagram...27801979_n.jpg

That's all I got.

What the hell, 1600 AND a carbon cannister!!!

WTF

:)

Intersting manifold.

Oh yeah - https://www.instagram.com/whatsinthatthinglol/

A lot of credit for the powertrain and setup goes to his cool dad. Tony from UMS tuning. Reputable tuner, race car builder, shop owner and race stewart at NASA and GTA (screw Tesla fanbois) :)

Yeah it's pretty crazy, that car is running a stock mount location replacement Evo 10 turbo and a divided manifold for a true twin scroll setup I believe.

It makes the same or more amount of torque as most 1.8 cars around these forums that make 400+whp. And want to know what's insane? Still has 2.5" catback. He's switching to 3" soon and that should help the top end because right now the HP curve hits a wall and flatlines at 5800rpm. So about 380WHP from 5800 to 7100. Torque peak is 380ft-lbs at 4500-ish.


He's a solid driver. I think the first time he drove a racecar on track was in 2014 at just 13 years old. It was actually my car that he was driving and I was in the right seat instructing for the weekend.

That's right, Tony was saying he stuck 20g internals in the X turbo.

Working on the splitter tonight, realized we were the two fastest RWD cars at the event, period. Cool.

Do corvettes not come out on the west coast? I believe some showed up at Road Atlanta and kicked some ass.

I haven't seen any serious Corvette's in awhile.

A Corvette is certainly an easy button to serious speed. However, no car is a guaranteed winner. There was a Corvette in LRWD at this SLB... Ultimate Street Car Challenge competitor, presumably well set up, nowhere near the podium. That said, the LRWD record at Buttonwillow is held by a Corvette, so you know it could get up there.

Looking at results from the last two years of GTA at Road Atlanta... several Corvettes attended in various classes. Only one made it on a podium (2nd place).

There have been vettes in Gridlife events that have been serious threats to the front runners. This thing comes to mind. https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...g?format=2500w

While I agree that we all want to see further development and racing wins on a BP powerplant, one does have to wonder how much faster that thing would be with a more historically reliable powertrain at the types of power we are talking about. I mean, we are still in stock LS territory (power-wise) but I'd bet the reliability of a less stressed powertrain alone you'd see lap times drop since you should be able to get way more worry free race hours on a less stressed engine.

There is a bit of a weight penalty with the LS, and the transmission options are all heavy as well. It honestly surprised me that E mentioned even thinking about an LS.

In theory, maybe.
But v8 swapped Exocets weigh what my ST5 car weighs(few hundred pounds lighter than Vegas), and only go a second or two faster than Spec Miatas.
V8 swapped cars require every other system of the car to also get heavier.

It would be easier and more worthwhile to put Vegas' drivetrain into OGK, resulting in a total package that is probably 400lbs lighter. Upgrade to a 3d splitter and make the two tweaks we've already outlined to the engine package.
330/2250 Bullet 2017
419/2470 Vegas 2018
600/2100 OGK 19/20 theory

As an aside, we should all look to Formula D cars for some stateside inspiration. Tube front, tube rear, pretty similar "production unibody" remnants must remain. 1000whp is normal. Pretty sure the top 10 FD cars would port into Limited class and be on the podium.

Sure. But at the same time you are making reliable power, lap after lap. I'd imagine the weight gain being smaller than most think considering he is probably running the largest intercooler he can fit in there as well as various other bits. Even a K20/K24 would be a superior powertrain choice and he could bolt it up to the current transmission that's in there using kmiata adapters.

Damn. That's quite surprising to me. That's with ST/TT (not HPDE) drivers in both the spec and Exo? That seems like a much smaller delta than I would be expecting.

However if that 19/20 setup could be possible, and you guys have time to dial it in, I can see that being disgustingly fast.

P.S. Make a SuperMiata splitter/air dam kit :)

Exocets have stupid amounts of drag. A fully "lightened" Exo with a VVT motor has a lower top speed then a normal 1.8 miata. They just make up the time under braking and in corners.

No doubt LS swaps weigh less than a lot of people think (mine was 2114 before the cage and some other stuff, I'm guessing between 2200-2300 now with cage but no aero), but there still is a trickle down effect on the drivetrain components of extra weight. But like Dan said, the LS miatas usually aren't as fast as you'd think. They're still lots of fun though :D

...do they, though?

They lose six seconds on the straights and make up two in the corners.

Your skepticism is well founded.

I have not yet seen any in car video or data that conclusively shows an Exo going as fast as a Miata with equal equipment, let alone faster. Lots of ambiguous testimonials (and anger!). They're fun for sure, just not faster on a road course than a Miata with the same mods.
We spent several days on both track and street dialing in our Xida Race and XL with Sonny, data recording, pyrometers, suspension cams, careful kinematic and chassis measurements. IOW, not a peanut gallery guess but an opinion based on direct personal experience and significant data collection.

I'm sure this will get me some hate mail. To that I say, show me proof otherwise and I'll change my opinion.

Not really. If you look at OEM 6 speeds, sure. But Tex/Jerico/TKO options are all under 95# dry weight to my knowledge.

This is true, although I've heard nothing but bad things about the TKO for road course duties and >6000rpm. Hadn't ever looked into the other two though