1:53.810 Limited RWD in 2014.

Weight had to be around 2300lbs I'm guessing and maybe between 450 and 550whp if I had to guess? He was on 17" wheels with Hankook TD's and was wheeling it halfway decent. I had a media pass that year and was on the infield for most of the day. Actually have footage of him getting air over the hump after grapevine.

So it out Miata's a Miata? What's not to like? :giggle:
If anyone's seen the video of Cleetus's C5 kart in the windtunnel, it completely agrees with E and doward. Aero (or the lack thereof) over 100mph is no joke.

We're having a customer picking up his car tomorrow from the shop, an LS3 swapped car with some good stuff in it.
I'll try to put it on the scales before it leaves, but that thing has much of the right stuff - built LS3 that should put down ~550 WHP, 20 point cage, lightened chassis, Penske DAs copied from my car, decent aero with DRS.
Driver is intermediate so there will definitely be a learning curve there, but I am looking forward to see what this baby can do, might jump behind the wheel for a few laps if i want to scare myself :giggle:
I'll post pics soon.

Another factor is I believe they are already using a Quaife sequential transmission. My thought is a similar Quaife unit for LS motors (they have to make one for the LS right?) would only carry a marginal weight increase.

Yeah I'd definitely be interested to see the weight of that. It seems that all comparisons are really apples to oranges. LS swapped cars say "I've gained X weight over the stock BP motor", but that's a different case when we are talking about a built, big turbo, huge intercooler engine. I suspect the weight differential is less than most people think.

Let's take a scenario on paper:

Say 949 looses their mind and for some stupid reason listens to me, and they swap in an bolt-on, E85 LS7 into Vegas and gain 100 pounds and make around the same HP with similar area under the curve. I would venture to say I would almost guarantee lap times would drop due to two different factors:

A. NA powerband with no turbo lag up to 7,100 rpm+ (8K with valves) might make the car exceedingly easy to drive (like a beefed up LFX car)
B. With reliability concerns out the window, the little time you have on time attack days can be better used to fine tune the suspension/aero/brakes rather than worrying about powertrain issues

Just my train of thought. It's all just theory-crafting since nothing like this has been done at this high of a time attack level before.

LS7 has oiling issues and even with the factory dry sump tend to grenade themselves every now and again, so reliability concerns are definitely not out the window.

Yeah, that was ridiculous. Even in drag racing, losing the body panels helps your 60 ft but not your overall time once you get fast.

Scaled it at 2376 Lbs, with complete passenger safety setup in place (Cobra Evolution, side mounts, Schroth 6 pt, window net).
Removing passenger safety bits probably saves ~35 lbs, so in competition it'll probably be a 2340 Lbs car.

In regards to Vettes doing well at GTA/GL:

JFC, I can't imagine feeling comfortable touching nearly 150mph on track without a cage, HANS, etc.

Yep. And 3pt factory belt.

He's trail braking into T1 getting the rear light and almost running out of room and that's not a fun place to go off. But then he's braking early for 10a and going slower through 10a than he obviously could.

I was afraid of that track last time I was there. I'm out of practice and/or my balls are shrinking with age.

Fast drivers are much rarer than fast cars unfortunately... Even more so when you get to that level of performance. A Vette is a harder wheel than an Evo or WRX I'd wager.

Yeah. Not good. You're reinforcing the point lol.

That is like 6 seconds off the record pace of Limited class times at GTA. Which is almost a direct crossover for Track Mod.

I thought Ian's vette was Street Mod class.....obviously mistaken. I do know it's a SSP prepped C5z.

Never the less, did you watch the same video I did? He's obviously wheeling that thing pretty well. He also gives no fucks in several departments. Big balls plays a big role at Road Atlanta.

He is wheeling it that's for sure, but it's not exactly a fast lap... So many mistakes and overdriving. Still better than most who don't even try but yeah, realistically it's not that great.

Welp, don't want to derail the thread any further, lol.

​​​​​​I'll end my comments on it with....3350lbs, 380rwhp, oem aero, 100tw 275 Goodyears. Bad lap for track mod, good lap for street mod, great lap for that car.

Jeez you guys, give it a rest with the V8 stuff....949 / Trackspeed etc is much more valuable to us in a BP than any one off Miata lap records with a v8.

As I pretty much follow their leads, simply cant afford a LS swap if 949 and Trackpseed get the v8 bug.

Im hoping they crack the reliability factor for a BP runing 450 whp soon :)

(if a 1600 can do 380 .....wasn't so long ago the challenge was on for a 1600 to crack 300!)

This. LS motors are great street and drag engines. On a road course, they are a hot dumpster fire. Massive oiling system issues, drainback issues, cooling system issues, oil temp issues, valvetrain issues (literally every LS7 needs valve guides done). You can absolutely build a reliable 600whp LS motor, but don't pretend for a second that it won't be at least 150lbs heavier than a comparable BP, and come with all its own baggage regarding cooling system packaging and other reliability issues related to the requisite items to actually fit the motor in the chassis, and cost $25-30k when it's all said and done.

I've read quite a bit about the track oiling issues on LSx motors and saw my own anecdotal evidence this summer. One of our regular track attendees (usually running in the Time Attack group) has a beautiful FD with LS swap (caged, well-developed aero and CF bits). He's an excellent driver with a very fast car that typically takes FTD. In the middle of the season, his engine made the expensive smoke and he trailered it home. I haven't talked to him about the outcome yet, but I have a pretty good idea he experienced the inevitable oil starvation issue.

Yep, true dry sump is the only way to really run them on track. The ls7's isn't a true dry sump either.

90mph, ~1.8g

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d0ca5d36ea.jpg

2019 rules release. Limited looks wild!

Limited is going to be one hell of a challenge.

The problem makes sense when you consider G forces and how easy it is for oil to climb up the outside cylinder bank during cornering. Not quite a 45 degree angle but not 90 degrees like an inline 4. The head/valve cover fills with oil as the G forces backfill the drain holes and the pushrods pump more oil into the head.

Aside from the problems the LS faces I also wondered about weight distribution. Inline engines keep weight close to center as possible. The V8's hang an awful lot on the edges up high. Not idea! Most focus on gross weight differences but here lies the real weakness IMHO.

Back to regularly scheduled GTA discussion.

For the enthusiastic but uninformed casual observers, what were the most significant changes?

They're allowing nitrous, lol.

Kinda related... the Super Lap Battle website is up with new content!

Super Lap Battle USA |

And sequential transmissions, and 60TW tires, not 40 or 80, 60.

...and "No part of the top of the tire or wheel may protrude past the widest point of the wheel arch/fender/quarter panel or flare when viewed from above."

Pretty much all changes to mirror WTAC Open class for global reference/competition and the new SuperLapBattle event in CotA being internationally marketed.

I'd say the combination of drivetrains.

Right, changes for Limited class:

- There is no segregation by drivetrain layout. AWD, RWD and FWD are all in the same pot (just like WTAC).

- Sequential transmissions are allowed, with restrictions saying no paddle shift and no "automation" which at first glance miiiiight be interpreted as no load cell-based ignition cut. (facilitating cross-over with WTAC Open class)

- Treadwear limit is now 60, down from 80. This does not help the Miata at all. There were no 15" 80tw tires to use, there are no 15" 60tw tires to use. So the competition gets faster.

- NOS is allowed on naturally aspirated cars under 3850cc

- Engine relocation allowed up to 2"

Ultimately the largest challenge comes from the combination of item 1 above (so add GTRs, Evos, etc. to the list of cars that can come to the party) with the fact that SLB is moving to a F1 GP track with mahooosive straights, and the potential for WTAC Open class cars to come over, and the top cars in each class over there are on an entirely different level than anything in the US.

2019 will be a barometer year for GTA, I'm rather curious about this myself.
When you realize that no north American build has ever gone under 1:27 at SMSP and the game is being played in the 1:19-1:21 range, you know that there's a lot of work to do and a lot of money that will be needed to pour into builds to make it to the pointy end of things.
Are the US teams ready to put up or not?
If GTA has the pull power to bring international competitors to COTA, the days of half assed builds winning anything are going to be over sooner than later, I'd give it until 2021 at best.

Lfx is a 3.6 :nxsmile:

Indeed. Even without international competitors, with all drivetrains aggregated I think we can be sure there will be no more "soft" classes.

Doesn't seem like anyone is really excited about this change as even at larger tire sizes it only opens to door to one or two new options that may or may not be "better" than what was allowed last year. At first I thought it was another WTAC change, but with GTA requiring tires be available in the US through US distributors I'm still a little confused...

I can't wait until a spec tire is ironed out.

FWIW, we are going to step away from GTA for a year or two. Concentrating instead on many product development projects that have been otherwise languishing. Vegas being finished as an S1, as originally planned. OGK tub will likely be slapped together as street legal roadster with a 2.0L N/A motor mid 2019.

COTA will require raising the game a level or two, as Moti and Ryan have observed. A lot more power, active/ semi-active aero in any of the classes. The trend will be towards bigger cars with bigger tires as the scales will tip more towards power vs drag over pure downforce and mechanical grip. Butter smooth, grippy, super wide COTA is an entirely different animal than bumpy, low grip, narrow and relatively low speed Buttonwillow. Both of which are also well removed from the demands of SMP. Just the length of the lap at COTA will require new levels of driver discipline and cooling from the car. Cars that could just barely hang on for one lap of SMP or BRP, will grenade long before the final sector at COTA.

Unlike drifting, which tire manufactures will blindly heave big bucks and development into, Time Attack is an afterthought. Other than the brief flurry from Hankook with their Ventus TD a few years ago, there are still very few tires to choose from, particularly for the smaller cars like early Civics and Miatas.
What would Ryans car do on a hypothetical 275/35/15 Ventus TD?

I wouldn't say that COTA is buttersmooth nowadays (well, maybe compared to the classic "local" track :P), but it's definitely not Miata territory...

17/18 are getting pretty lumpy and cause some oversteer even at poverty HP. At the speeds actual fast cars are turning I'm sure there's much pucker factor.

In comparison to Buttonwillow, it's a sheet of glass.

Club tracks ≠ FIA tracks

I think the missing link was just revealed this morning at PRI.
The creation of NATA, insta wider customer base.

This is big news.
I am wondering how SCCA's rule structure which as old as dirt can cope with the wild rulebook of GTA (and I presume GL, though I'm not as well versed).
We'll have to wait and see, but I have to admit that I'm not thrilled about the idea of SCCA touching any of what I love about time attack.

Sometimes when you going to have a party you don't want to invite everyone you can think of. Some people are going to make the party a lot less fun for everyone that attends.

This part from Road & Track's article gives me some hope. Their coverage of the new SCCA TT format sounded fun and not overly complex, and it more clearly sets up GTA to be the Superbowl of time attack.

If anyone thinks that Time Attack is going to bend to the class rules of SCCA or SCCA solo style stuff, they are wrong. I'm not scared about that at all.

The bonuses that GTA gets from SCCA coming to the table is the ability to make a licensing program, widen their scope for recruiting drivers, as well as using the SCCA safety regulations as a backbone to build a new set of CCR's for the series.

I think that Gridlife wants to keep moving in the direction of "Track Battles" and possibly wheel to wheel racing with more of a festival format with big concerts and stuff. GTA will be the go to for traditional time attack for serious competitors with three big events per year (RA, NJ, BW), Super Lap Battle USA will be "the Superbowl" of TA, and SCCA will likely be making an attempt to step into NASA's time trial territory is my guess. All have their own purposes and all can benefit from working with each other instead of against each other. I'm excited to say the least and don't have any fear for the "integrity" of GTA being compromised especially with a real OG and true enthusiast like Jason at the helm.

Lol very true. The series that go there and complain definitely wouldn't want driving on some of the tracks here !