Schroedinger

I'm in my first real track season, trying to do 1-2 track days per month this summer. No racing, just HPDE and events through the various groups here (JustTrackIt, JZilla, Chin, etc). As a general rule I am very serious about safety, but I also try to balance comfort and convenience to the extent that I can. I live in Atlanta, and drive my street-legal car to and from the track. If it doesn't fit in my Miata, it doesn't come to the track. The tracks I drive (RA, AMP, Barber) are all within 2.5 hours of my house. I don't have air conditioning, and it's blistering hot and humid all summer long.

I own an SFI fire suit, but I'm not going to wear it in the heat. I tried, and the discomfort involved was distracting enough to create a different safety issue. Instead I wear all cotton: socks, underwear, white long sleeve t shirt, and jeans. My rationale is that it breathes a lot better, keeps me out of the sun, and doesn't melt to my skin in the event of a fire.

This thread got me thinking about cooling solutions:
https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...wl-vest-93646/

I had some cash to burn, so I bought the Techniche hybrid cooling vest that Winding Road sells. Worn over a cotton t-shirt (rather than under a fire suit), the evaporative cooling should still work pretty well. Plus it has the chemical ice packs.

I think this is a balance that each non-competitive driver wrestles with, and I'd like to get viewpoints and best practices on how people walk that line. I'm trying to keep this a fun hobby rather than a major inconvenience.

Savington

iTrader: (31)

I have it on good authority that burning to death is both uncomfortable and inconvenient.

I wear my fire suit every single time I get into a car, even a street car, and even if it's 110F outside. Every time. No excuses. There's no point in owning it if you're not going to use it.

If you're hot, get a Coolsuit or buy a more expensive suit which breathes better.

z31maniac

Yes, but if you follow this logic to conclusion, there is no excuse for getting on track in anything less a caged race car, with fire suppression, HANS, fixed back, etc, etc, etc. And if that was required, that would kill HPDE within a few months.


I'm perfectly comfortable going on track in jeans/long sleeve/etc, in a street car. In reality, YOU have to decide what level of risk YOU are comfortable with.

Schroedinger

... and those are the two sides of the story that I'm trying to reconcile. Ultimately I know this comes down to a personal decision, but it's helpful to hear how others rationalize their decisions.

z31maniac

I rationalize it by understanding that there is risk, but in HPDE, it's INCREDIBLY low.

You're more likely to have an incident on the way to the track then while at the track.

Savington

iTrader: (31)

I've done a few HPDEs in non-caged cars (namely Acamas) over the last couple of years and I felt distinctly less comfortable than I do in Rover (full W2W safety gear). To compensate in the risk profile, I would leave time on the table in certain spots in Acamas, and there are a couple of tracks I would never take that car to (WSIR and ACS).

With fire, you cannot tailor your driving or your pace to compensate for that risk. Fires can break out at any time for a wide variety of reasons. Even in a street car with 3-point belts, I would prefer to be in my fire suit regardless of how hot it is outside.

The risks are low, yes, but every single death in an HPDE environment in CA in the last decade can be directly attributed to subpar safety gear. In general, motorsport deaths have become exceptionally rare in the last 10 years or so, likely owing to availability of top-notch safety gear. The exceptions are when cars go into catch fencing at 200mph+, or when open-wheeled drivers are struck in the head by stuff, neither of which is a concern in a Miata. If given the choice, I'm going to arm myself with all the gear that's available to me.

codrus

I'm with Savington on the fire thing. It's a personal decision about how much risk you're willing to take, but once I bought a fire suit I never went out on track without it.

Most people seem to get more safety conscious the more track days they do. I can see multiple reasons for this -- the more you do the faster you're going, and the more accidents you see other people get into. Also, as people get older they tend to to start picking up additional responsibilities (spouse, kids) which weigh on your mind when you think about safety.

Also, most of the inconveniences associated with safety gear can be mitigated by throwing money at it. Nomex gear is hot, yes, but a coolshirt system will completely fix that. If you've never used one, they're magical. You're more comfortable sitting in the race car in the sun wearing Nomex than you are wearing t-shirt and shorts and sitting in the shade in the paddock. It totally transforms the experience. I know one guy who even used to wear his coolshirt system for the drive to/from the track.

Coolshirt systems are not terribly expensive, ~$500 for the commercial one. You can DIY it for substantially less than that if you want to put in the time -- it's basically just a cooler, a pump, a t-shirt with some tubes sewn onto it, and a bunch of fittings.

--Ian

PatCleary

Mine isn't caged, but if I have protective gear I don't leave it behind, especially not my suit. I'm happy with my decision to spend more on a 3 layer suit, while I've never been out in 110*, I've never found myself uncomfortable in the car. If you're not going to put on a suit, don't put on cotton, look for Nomex or better yet CarbonX shirt, gloves, etc. At least wear clothes that won't burn. White helmet and suit may help as well as they'll reflect light.

Stay really well hydrated (don't start the morning when you get to the track). Jenson Button gave a good interview on prepping for hot races that may be worth looking at for hints.

Hard top on the car? Consider reinstalling the AC, there's a reason the FIA mandates them for closed cockpit cars. Or build a very light one. Run without a top in the summer (this may or may not help). Consider some of the clear window tints to keep the interior cooler. Cool suits (and their DIY brethren) are another option. I know the transmission tunnel in my track car runs really hot, seal all the holes in the tunnel, and put reflective tape inside the tunnel (or insulation outside it).

hornetball

iTrader: (4)

+1 for cool shirts when the temps get up to 90+. You'll enjoy the comfortable driving long after you've forgotten about the expense. You do need to buy ice when buying gas though.

Also, the little tubes coming out of your groin area really do it for the ladies! (not)

On the subject of safety gear, always wear good gloves. Your hands get you out of the car. Sometimes I see people driving in suits but not wearing gloves. Makes no sense . . . .

Junkwhale

+1 on fire suit all the time. It's easy to underestimate the risk of any track/competitive driving and fire is scary as ****.

I watched a car at an autocross here (admittedly a fairly high speed course, it was coned out on a race track), catch an edge of the track and roll multiple times, catch fire, and the resulting fuel fire burn through almost all large extinguishers we had on hand putting it out.

The driver and passenger were both fine (cuts and scrapes only) due only to having a full cage and safety gear, and both wearing fire suits. They got out quickly but there was definitely a point where there was both them and flames in the cockpit. Looking through the burnt out interior with charred seats where they were sitting was pretty sobering.

Blackbird

You know what your safety gear is good for when you're not using it?
Absolutely f'ing nothing.

Schroedinger

curly

iTrader: (25)

UrbanSoot

iTrader: (24)

That mostly depends on your car. I'm planning on adding a turbo to my Miata in about 6 months and that will put the downpipe right next to my fuel lines. I won't even consider driving this car out of the shop without adding a fire suppression system first.

I'm currently looking for a fire suit to wear at the track (HPDE's, drift, auto-x) and my plan was to DIY a cool shirt system for cooling. I'll be using instead of ice. I've tested them while camping in 90-degree heat and they last about 24 hours. I'm not good at sewing so I'll just buy a ready-made shirt and just DIY the rest. Shouldn't cost more than $150-200 all said and done.

codrus

IIRC cool shirt sells a portable unit you can carry around with you. You're probably better off taking off the driver's suit for the hour or so between sessions, though.

--Ian

Dietcoke

Fixed.

Schroedinger

Schroedinger

Wingman703

This is completely incorrect, I have personally seen cars burst into flame going down the straights well away from anything. Broken/chafed oil or fuel lines don't need an impact.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

I made a cool shirt from a t shirt and made a reservoir from a cooler and a 12v boat bilge pump. It is documented here on the forum somewhere. Advanced search my name and bilge and you'll find the post.

It is intolerably hot and humid here in the summer but the cool shirt feels like someone poured a bottle of cold water inside your shirt.

As for fire, gasoline burns but so does motor oil from a broken line, brake fluid on the exhaust manifold, ethylene glycol (if you are still using it), and all of the wiring insulation in the car. Running even a street car on the track makes things hotter and vibrate more than they ever would on the street. More so with anything modified for more power.

Don't assume when the car catches fire you will be conscious, or be alert, or right side up, or not have your legs pinned in the footwell, or not have an arm pinned between the rollbar and the ground, or have an arm or leg broken or even your back. I've seen some fires and some really shitty wrecks in HPDE. I've seen a car hook into the wall at track out on a fast sweeper and hit it hard head-on then tumble sideways twice. This is at a non-contact street car HPDE event.

I always wear the fire suit, gloves, hood, shoes, all of it. I know a guy who watched another guy burn to death pinned in car yelling for help "Don't let me burn!" I only need to talk to one guy who saw something like that to convince me.

And as an instructor, please do it right for both sides or not at all.