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Old 05-29-2011, 04:43 PM   #21
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all that about spring rate and sway bar is about mechanical grips.
aero grips is what I was referring to. looking at your picture, it seem you have a pretty good front aero setup. splitter don't have to be big, splitter length is a diminishing return anyway. many would argue rear bump cut out is not a huge thing. I still think your aero grip isn't balanced. just my opinion.

front tire spat also help quite a bit for the front end.

I will see you at Chuckawalla. it is mostly med speed corners, we will see...
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:05 PM   #22
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I went to Thunder Hill with just a front splitter and had lots of trouble keeping the rear end hooked up, especially on the high speed corners. i wouldn't dare do cal speedway like that.
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by spoolin2bars View Post
easy buddy, not trying to take away a sale from ya'
not sure what the except part means, i was just stating my experience. trust me, when my turbo eventually goes out, i'll be ordering a set from you. even though i only need 1! lol... hopefully he'll evetually have stud failure too!
Didn't mean to be confrontational - just pointing out that having the studs out of the exhaust stream doesn't exempt a setup from the stud issue.

Stretching turbo hardware sucks, but at the same time it's definitely a badge of honor.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
all that about spring rate and sway bar is about mechanical grips.
aero grips is what I was referring to. looking at your picture, it seem you have a pretty good front aero setup. splitter don't have to be big, splitter length is a diminishing return anyway. many would argue rear bump cut out is not a huge thing. I still think your aero grip isn't balanced. just my opinion.

front tire spat also help quite a bit for the front end.

I will see you at Chuckawalla. it is mostly med speed corners, we will see...
Granted, mechanical grip and aero grip are different and do behave differently, but I dunno, it seems to be working for me so far... naturally it's not the optimal setup - but for the optimal setup the car would be in Unlimited..
Whether the car could be competetive for the class, will remain to be unseen until my own driving skills have developed enough, but I'm in no hurry - I'm having a great time and learning a lot, some day I'll get there.

Just finished up my aero work over the last couple days, most notably added the tire spats, looking forward to seeing how it all works at Chuckwalla!:

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Old 05-29-2011, 08:36 PM   #25
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Do you have any pictures of inside the engine bay behind the driver side headlight? I'm guessing theres an air box there and the hole in the hood is to let the air escape?
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Old 05-29-2011, 09:10 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
Granted, mechanical grip and aero grip are different and do behave differently, but I dunno, it seems to be working for me so far... naturally it's not the optimal setup - but for the optimal setup the car would be in Unlimited..
Whether the car could be competetive for the class, will remain to be unseen until my own driving skills have developed enough, but I'm in no hurry - I'm having a great time and learning a lot, some day I'll get there.

Just finished up my aero work over the last couple days, most notably added the tire spats, looking forward to seeing how it all works at Chuckwalla!:

Paul walker called, he wants his supra hood back.. That looks freaking badass. What did you do, follow the hood underframe and cut those? Or did you use a template?
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Old 05-30-2011, 01:03 AM   #27
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+1
Sexiest hood EVER
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Old 05-30-2011, 01:26 AM   #28
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I love the tire spats. that will help eliminate a ton of front end lift.
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Old 05-30-2011, 01:36 AM   #29
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The whole car looks badass.
Inspired my car a bit.

How thicks the splitter? 8mm ply?

Dann
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Old 05-30-2011, 02:33 AM   #30
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Thanks for the kind words guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by wittyworks View Post
Do you have any pictures of inside the engine bay behind the driver side headlight? I'm guessing theres an air box there and the hole in the hood is to let the air escape?
I'm still working on the box. Haven't settled on whether I want to mold it with fiberglass or just make a box with aluminum, but yes the intake sits directly behind the hole in the headlight lid. The NACA duct right behind that is to draw out any uninhaled air.
The idea I had is that of course you want cool air for the intake - so boxing the filter off from the rest of the engine bay makes sense. Creating an external source to supply that box with cool air is even better, but that's where many people's setups stop. If you're WOT, all the air entering that box is being used by the motor, but what about partial and off-throttle time? It just makes sense to me that it's going to be much more aerodynamically slick for unused air to have an escape from that box, instead of creating tons of turbulence inside the box, and I think that facilitating airflow through that box will also help keep the box cool even with a heatsoaked engine bay.

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Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas View Post
Paul walker called, he wants his supra hood back.. That looks freaking badass. What did you do, follow the hood underframe and cut those? Or did you use a template?
The 17 year old me would be so happy I loved the first F&F.
No template, just some time and a dremel, following the shapes in the underside of the hood, which just happen to be positioned perfectly behind the readiator and forward of the valve cover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
The whole car looks badass.
Inspired my car a bit.

How thicks the splitter? 8mm ply?

Dann
It's alumalite - basically two thin aluminum sheets with a composite between them - much like a honeycomb between two layers of carbon fiber. Makes it very rigid yet quite light. Total thickness is ~7mm.

Last edited by ThePass; 05-30-2011 at 02:46 AM.
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Old 05-30-2011, 02:44 AM   #31
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Awesome, not sure where to get alumalite here. Not in that sort of thickness anyway, but Im sure sandwich plate fibreglass will do me.

Dann
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Old 05-30-2011, 03:19 AM   #32
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For me, finding it just took some time making calls. It can be found in 4x8 sheets at distributors of sign and awning materials. I found a place an hour north of me that sold them in 4x8 for $190, and they would deliver for $5. So I've still got half a sheet of the stuff for future projects.

Like here: http://www.sfsupplies.com/default.sfs?productid=6540

Last edited by ThePass; 05-30-2011 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 05-30-2011, 03:35 AM   #33
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With experience from just Micky Mouse tracks (Not much time in 5th, even with 4.875, so value my remarks accordingly) isn't it just the classical thing that different balance curves intersect at different speeds?

With no aero you get loose at some speed (lets say 80mph sweeper) and tight at hairpins. Classically (on any sports car) you slap a wing on the back and you can balance that out (and potentially even things out over a larger speed span).

If you for whatever reason need to make all the tools that you have at your hands work against each other to get balance (make the springs fight the bars, or the shocks against the aero etc) you will get bigger differences in balance when you get out of your comfort zone (where you have set your balance).
If you feel that you have a high speed balance at 60-80-100 mph, that might be a very different picture when you get to 110-120-130.
Loose is when you hit the wall with the rear end, tight when you hit it with the front...

How smooth are the ovals? I.e. are there spring/shock doodling that could help high speed stability without loosing the low speed control (probably not, an there's a tricky thing in getting an efficient setup, one that probably will feel unsafe).
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:22 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
With no aero you get loose at some speed (lets say 80mph sweeper) and tight at hairpins. Classically (on any sports car) you slap a wing on the back and you can balance that out (and potentially even things out over a larger speed span).
The thing is, that isn't the case really - most guys who put a rear wing on the miata (a real one) report that the car understeers at high speeds. They then have to get extreme with the front aero to try to balance it. The rear wing doesn't necessarily create balance. From what I've gathered, the biggest benefit guys are reporting at high speeds from the wing is the ability to put the power down much sooner and harder through corners due to the added rear grip from the downforce, as opposed to the same corner without the wing where they might have to be gentler on the throttle to avoid oversteering - but this is power-induced oversteer which is being fought, not to be confused with the handling-induced variety. If you've got a car with a great balance suspension-wise, and want to add a wing but keep the handling the way it was, you'll need a lot of front downforce as well.

Last edited by ThePass; 05-30-2011 at 08:03 AM.
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