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Old 05-13-2015, 10:44 AM   #281
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Did some more research on this, consulted a friend that's a former HVAC engineer, had an espresso or two. It appears that I'm guilty of propagating a myth, after a fashion. I hate when that happens. Apologies to the community.

Let the coolant haul *** through the system, just like the air through the rad. Looking at our crossflow, I know we have more surface area than a traditional downflow of the same core thickness, but the gains there are modest. What gains there are from any crossflow, are not in any way related to the speed of the slower local flow rate, but the greater surface area of core vs end tank.
You must be new here; what you're supposed to do when you're wrong is to dig in your heels and double down.

(real talk: what separates good posters from bad posters is the ability and humility to accept that you're wrong)
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:54 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
You must be new here; what you're supposed to do when you're wrong is to dig in your heels and double down.

(real talk: what separates good posters from bad posters is the ability and humility to accept that you're wrong)
lulz. Can't learn anything new if you are "always right". Member since '05.. wow, 10 years.
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Old 05-13-2015, 03:48 PM   #283
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Slammed200 It didn't work as the large dia bottom barrel you see in the pic. is what moves to open and I opened it in a pan of hot water to see how it worked and it won't have room to open in the reroute housing [M Tuned] as it tapers to much. Went back to a 180 with 2 quarter inch holes drilled in it for bypass.
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:55 AM   #284
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Slammed200 It didn't work as the large dia bottom barrel you see in the pic. is what moves to open and I opened it in a pan of hot water to see how it worked and it won't have room to open in the reroute housing [M Tuned] as it tapers to much. Went back to a 180 with 2 quarter inch holes drilled in it for bypass.
Thanks for the closure, bummer it didn't work as the design looked promising.

You were running only 1 of the 1/4" holes at first, why the second one now? I would think that the 1/4" hole mimics the OEM 3/8" bypass plus the added pressure drop across the heater core effectively but maybe you've learned better.

Also, does the increased flow past the thermostat seem to drop the effective "opening temperature" of the thermostat in terms of engine temp?
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Old 05-14-2015, 10:36 AM   #285
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You are way over my head. I just put a second hole in when I reinstalled it to make sure I had a little more bypass effect until the stat opens. I don't go out without the car being warmed up and it seems to do that about the same as when the heater was inline. The bypass pipe is like half inch or five eigths inside dia. so I figured a second hole would be a good thing.
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Old 05-24-2015, 07:37 PM   #286
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Is there any consensus on the currently available radiators for high hp track driven cars?

TSE and FM are the only two crossflow choices out along with a few people suggesting the Koyo Hyper-V. I'm betting the higher FPI Koyo probably does not have the cooling capacity that the others do, although it is nearly $300 less expensive which is certainly noticeable. There's less than $20 (after shipping) between the two crossflow choices. FM's is $55 cheaper until they add the $55 shipping while TSE only charges $15.
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Old 05-24-2015, 08:01 PM   #287
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FM's is $55 cheaper until they add the $55 shipping while TSE only charges $15.
Buying a critical part for your track build solely on price is not a good place to start. Figure out which will work the best for you then bite the bullet.
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Old 05-24-2015, 08:16 PM   #288
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I've heard from at least one customer who jumped from an FM crossflow to our crossflow and reported lower CLTs as a result.
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Old 05-24-2015, 08:43 PM   #289
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Loving this discussion. Here's a situation and question:
Street car, all OEM cooling system (no re-route, stock shrouding/fans)
The MSM got a 27mm rad from Mazda vs the regular NB's 16mm. The PO of my car stupidly replaced the OEM MSM 27mm rad with a "replacement" OEM NB rad, not having a clue that they're different. I've noticed my car runs hotter than normal. It never overheated, just cycles the fans more often, and is usually in the 202-208 range after hard driving, but then goes down.

After reading crazy paranoia on M-S saying the car will overheat like crazy, and "mazda gave it a bigger rad cause it needs more rad to keep cool vs a regular nb" I was freaking out.

Then I considered how many turbo street NB's are running around with a stock radiator, most well over the power I'm making.

I mean is it a deal breaker to run the 16mm rad like this, or just not a good idea, but technically OK.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:20 PM   #290
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Ask your water temp gauge.
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:25 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Buying a critical part for your track build solely on price is not a good place to start. Figure out which will work the best for you then bite the bullet.
I was clarifying where the totals costs came from, not stating that I would be placing an order based on cost. Simply looking at the two items on their respective websites warrants a $55 difference in price. Due to the notably different shipping costs, both items come out to be nearly the same overall cost to consumer (in my situation).

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I've heard from at least one customer who jumped from an FM crossflow to our crossflow and reported lower CLTs as a result.
Good to note. Thanks for the info!
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:26 PM   #292
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Ask your water temp gauge.
I already posted the temps it sits at. Thanks for your insightful contribution tho
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:38 PM   #293
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Okay, where are you driving it? Alaska in winter only, or the Mojave? Do you street drive it in a fashion similar to my nan or race it stoplight to stoplight?

Its an incredibly broad question, that cannot be answered without a lot more metrics, and Id assume you know that.

If the question is just "is 95*c too hot?", then the answer is, its not ideal but its not going o cause a catastrophic failure either.
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:43 PM   #294
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I'm not sure if I can make it more specific, and not for lack of trying.
Yes street driven. The temps here in summer are 95-105f, but so far the car hasn't seen hotter than 80f since the new rad. CLT 202-209 (I think the highest Ive ever seen, and it quickly went down after). Without hard driving usually 190-195

I guess my question is: is it likely the car will overheat with this rad, even though tons of turbo nb's seem to be ok with the oem 16mm rad? The most amount of WOT it sees is a burst of about 13 seconds every now and then (just a run through the gears) at most.
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:57 PM   #295
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I would say no. The 100% (or near) throttle duty cycle is far too low.

Dann
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Old 05-24-2015, 10:23 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I'm not sure if I can make it more specific, and not for lack of trying.
Yes street driven. The temps here in summer are 95-105f, but so far the car hasn't seen hotter than 80f since the new rad. CLT 202-209 (I think the highest Ive ever seen, and it quickly went down after). Without hard driving usually 190-195

I guess my question is: is it likely the car will overheat with this rad, even though tons of turbo nb's seem to be ok with the oem 16mm rad? The most amount of WOT it sees is a burst of about 13 seconds every now and then (just a run through the gears) at most.
If you turn the A/C on and beat on it, yeah it might overheat eventually. On my car A/C is a killer for cooling.

If it were my car I'd put the MSM radiator in it. I like having extra capacity though, not having a system that's ok, but it's working at 95% to keep up. Cooling is one of the things I believe more (capacity) is better, even if you're not using it.

(and now I need to go install my factory undertray.......)
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Old 05-24-2015, 11:42 PM   #297
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Ditto for me. 100F+ with AC on and sitting in a traffic jam seems to be the worst cooling condition on the Silver car. Once moving (even 15mph), the temp drops quickly. That traffic jam scenario was worse than track driving.
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:16 AM   #298
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Yeah no airflow is a heatsoak nightmare. 18psi - 210 F isn't the end of the world obviously, but if you haven't seen over 80 F ambient, there's a good chance of a 100 F day putting you at temps you don't want to be seeing. But really Dann is right, your water temp gauge don't lie.. well, it shouldn't *shakes stick at all the crappy autometers in the world* so if your existing rad is enough or not is really answered quite easily by that. If you don't want to wait until summer to find out the hard way, sure a bigger rad would give you headroom.

-Ryan
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:20 AM   #299
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Thanks guys. Pretty much what I was thinking too. I'm going to start looking for an MSM rad and keeping a close eye on the gauge (I have been ever since my "discovery"). I'd upgrade to something nice, but the car see's such short bursts of WOT that it'd probably just be a waste of money.
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Old 05-25-2015, 01:54 AM   #300
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Ditto for me. 100F+ with AC on and sitting in a traffic jam seems to be the worst cooling condition on the Silver car. Once moving (even 15mph), the temp drops quickly. That traffic jam scenario was worse than track driving.
Yeap. This is why I installed an awesome pair of fans on my setup, for this exact reason. 100*F + days sitting in traffic with A/C wide open.

Now if I could get an alternator strong enough to run them.......
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