Miata cooling system thread
08-21-2014, 08:52 PM
#161
So I have the worst case scenario for cooling, a high power turbo car with A/C getting driven where 120 is the shade temperature.
With a Precision 600 intercooler, TSE radiator and AC in the way, I need to figure out how to set up fans so it's good on track as well as idling in traffic while the pavement can cook an egg (literally).
I'd think no shrouding given the track use, but I'm not sure if the lack would work in traffic. FMs vent shroud is interesting but I doubt it'd fit the TSE radiator, let alone with a big RB sway behind making a tight fit.
Thoughts?
With a Precision 600 intercooler, TSE radiator and AC in the way, I need to figure out how to set up fans so it's good on track as well as idling in traffic while the pavement can cook an egg (literally).
I'd think no shrouding given the track use, but I'm not sure if the lack would work in traffic. FMs vent shroud is interesting but I doubt it'd fit the TSE radiator, let alone with a big RB sway behind making a tight fit.
Thoughts?
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08-21-2014, 09:53 PM
#162
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So I have the worst case scenario for cooling, a high power turbo car with A/C getting driven where 120 is the shade temperature.
With a Precision 600 intercooler, TSE radiator and AC in the way, I need to figure out how to set up fans so it's good on track as well as idling in traffic while the pavement can cook an egg (literally).
I'd think no shrouding given the track use, but I'm not sure if the lack would work in traffic. FMs vent shroud is interesting but I doubt it'd fit the TSE radiator, let alone with a big RB sway behind making a tight fit.
Thoughts?
With a Precision 600 intercooler, TSE radiator and AC in the way, I need to figure out how to set up fans so it's good on track as well as idling in traffic while the pavement can cook an egg (literally).
I'd think no shrouding given the track use, but I'm not sure if the lack would work in traffic. FMs vent shroud is interesting but I doubt it'd fit the TSE radiator, let alone with a big RB sway behind making a tight fit.
Thoughts?
It's because I'm not normal.
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08-21-2014, 10:13 PM
#163
You need a large oil cooler, a vented hood, and a very large fan in a custom shroud. I've still got A/C. My Spal 16" flows 2100cfm but still leaves plenty of open space for the airflow when it isn't engaged. It's just barely thin enough. Plus I'm also using a custom mounted triple pass stock car radiator and an aluminum shroud made by a shop that builds dirt track cars.
It's because I'm not normal.
It's because I'm not normal.
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08-22-2014, 07:46 AM
#164
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The two fan setups would draw only marginally more air than the giant single and the amp load on the electrical system would be, in my opinion, too high. Add into the equation cost, complexity, and the increased likelihood of stalling when an A/C clutch and two fans all came on at once. I'm on a different computer, but I think I bought 30102049 or one very close to it. Dettaglio motore assiale | Spal Italy
Note that it is low profile and also that there are thin blades with lots of room for air to pass unobstructed when the fan is static. Others might have a different setup they prefer but I'm quite happy with it and how it suited my needs.
Note that it is low profile and also that there are thin blades with lots of room for air to pass unobstructed when the fan is static. Others might have a different setup they prefer but I'm quite happy with it and how it suited my needs.
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08-22-2014, 10:05 AM
#165
You need a large oil cooler, a vented hood, and a very large fan in a custom shroud. I've still got A/C. My Spal 16" flows 2100cfm but still leaves plenty of open space for the airflow when it isn't engaged. It's just barely thin enough. Plus I'm also using a custom mounted triple pass stock car radiator and an aluminum shroud made by a shop that builds dirt track cars.
It's because I'm not normal.
It's because I'm not normal.
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08-22-2014, 01:54 PM
#167
+1000
I have been patiently awaiting this for a long time. To those of you who are ducted, it may seem too simple to have a thread like this. To those like me who aren't ducted, its hard to know where to start. There are a lot of variables. Pressure zones, materials, fastening/bonding methods, durability, etc...
I have been patiently awaiting this for a long time. To those of you who are ducted, it may seem too simple to have a thread like this. To those like me who aren't ducted, its hard to know where to start. There are a lot of variables. Pressure zones, materials, fastening/bonding methods, durability, etc...
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08-22-2014, 03:07 PM
#169
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Put the biggest vent you can fit in the hood, perhaps with a gurney flap on the leading edge to really help it extract at speed.
And of course giant fans and amazing ducting. Cause holy **** ***** that's hot. Like, humans should not live where you are living.
Perhaps a switch to turn the fans on independent of however your ECU is controlling them.
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08-22-2014, 03:14 PM
#170
Oil cooler and hood vents do SO much more than you'd think for the cooling of the car. I'd suggest an RX-7 oil cooler with no thermostat in the sandwich plate. The cooler itself has a relatively low 140* thermostat already installed.
Put the biggest vent you can fit in the hood, perhaps with a gurney flap on the leading edge to really help it extract at speed.
And of course giant fans and amazing ducting. Cause holy **** ***** that's hot. Like, humans should not live where you are living.
Perhaps a switch to turn the fans on independent of however your ECU is controlling them.
Put the biggest vent you can fit in the hood, perhaps with a gurney flap on the leading edge to really help it extract at speed.
And of course giant fans and amazing ducting. Cause holy **** ***** that's hot. Like, humans should not live where you are living.
Perhaps a switch to turn the fans on independent of however your ECU is controlling them.
Have an RX7 oil cooler and lines sitting in the garage, but why that instead of TSE's 25 row Setrab? Just haven't figured out where I'd put such a thing.
Ducting will happen after the oil cooler is setup, no sense coming up with a solution before things are finalized.
Called FM, no techs in, told to call back in 30. Want to see if their shrouding works with the TSE radiator, will call them again.
EDIT: Called back an hour later, still no techs available. Expected answer Monday.
Last edited by Nagase; 08-22-2014 at 03:59 PM.
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08-23-2014, 04:18 AM
#171
Re: Ducting thread. I am about to bring my car to a local fabricator to have him work his magic in regards to ducting. I am not sure how far the rabbit hole I will be going but I am wondering what people would like to see for research purposes.
IF I can sell him on using my car as a test bed for a "ducting kit" that features laser cut or water-jet cut (pre-bent) aluminum that can be assembled with rivets and/or "thread setter" and bolts- who would be interested? What would be features you would like?
Is it necessary for it to match up with the factory undertray or would you prefer a custom undertray? Would you like something incorporated that is similar to the BEGI "Scooper"? How important is separate air paths for intercooler and radiator? In other words, do you want to have some of the flow forced through the intercooler?
Would you prefer that some parts be made of plastic or some sort rather than aluminum?
This is something similar in scope to what has been done with the new hood louvers...
Provided it is is proven to work, who would be interested?
IF I can sell him on using my car as a test bed for a "ducting kit" that features laser cut or water-jet cut (pre-bent) aluminum that can be assembled with rivets and/or "thread setter" and bolts- who would be interested? What would be features you would like?
Is it necessary for it to match up with the factory undertray or would you prefer a custom undertray? Would you like something incorporated that is similar to the BEGI "Scooper"? How important is separate air paths for intercooler and radiator? In other words, do you want to have some of the flow forced through the intercooler?
Would you prefer that some parts be made of plastic or some sort rather than aluminum?
This is something similar in scope to what has been done with the new hood louvers...
Provided it is is proven to work, who would be interested?
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08-23-2014, 05:18 AM
#172
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I am enjoying all the recent focus in the race prep section on reliability - much less 'how to be a boss for one lap' much more 'how to make bulletproof track cars'... because first you have to be running reliably to embarrass fancy pants cars.
-Ryan
-Ryan
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08-23-2014, 10:57 AM
#174
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+1 to sixshooter's comment, it just wouldn't work for everyone. First off, it wouldn't work for any NA, assuming this is going on your '01. They're much different. Secondly, any change in intercooler size, position, width, and/or oil cooler size, position, or width, would render it useless.
What needs to be made is a rectangular frame that bolts on to the bottom half and lower tank of the radiator. Attached to this frame would be some plyable material (leather or plastic) that goes forward and bolts to the inside of the bumper mouth. That's all you're looking to do, adapt the shape of the bumper mouth to the shape of the radiator.
What needs to be made is a rectangular frame that bolts on to the bottom half and lower tank of the radiator. Attached to this frame would be some plyable material (leather or plastic) that goes forward and bolts to the inside of the bumper mouth. That's all you're looking to do, adapt the shape of the bumper mouth to the shape of the radiator.
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08-23-2014, 10:00 PM
#175
Yah. There wasn't a race prep section until I asked the previous owner of this forum to add one. I got tired of the worship of moar bewst one-lap/onramp-then-boom mentality. The original rental was an outgrowth of that and led to the enduro team and SuperMiata race series. It's gratifying to see the exchange of such core knowledge that keeps people on track instead and having fun.
__________________
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08-24-2014, 04:41 AM
#176
Yah. There wasn't a race prep section until I asked the previous owner of this forum to add one. I got tired of the worship of moar bewst one-lap/onramp-then-boom mentality. The original rental was an outgrowth of that and led to the enduro team and SuperMiata race series. It's gratifying to see the exchange of such core knowledge that keeps people on track instead and having fun.
Jeffbucc just signed up for his first SCCA event. This was Efini's response. I LOL'd.
Just don't take it too far or you'll end up on Hustler's bicycle thread.
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08-24-2014, 04:46 PM
#177
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As long as I can still enjoy driving it on the street I'll know I haven't gone too far.
When Emilio's radiator hits the market, I have a 48x96 1/8" ABS plastic sheet and a lot of Dzus fasteners waiting to create a clean, easy to remove under-tray/radiator ducting. It is sad how excited I am to make a better radiator ducting than my first attempt(which while good, could be better).
When Emilio's radiator hits the market, I have a 48x96 1/8" ABS plastic sheet and a lot of Dzus fasteners waiting to create a clean, easy to remove under-tray/radiator ducting. It is sad how excited I am to make a better radiator ducting than my first attempt(which while good, could be better).
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08-24-2014, 10:16 PM
#178
Hi. I'm a forum noob, and recently started working on my mom's 92 1.6l. After a day of having it in my possession and driving it in different manners, I've determined that the head gasket is indeed blown and the head may or may not be warped or cracked. I'll do a leakdown test in the future just to be sure though.
One thing I've noticed that people tend to neglect from the overheating posts is how to effectively clean the fins on a radiator of any kind. The best method is to use air conditioner condenser coil cleaner available at any big home improvement store. Make sure to follow the mixing (dilution) directions, and whatever you do, DO NOT get it on your paint. It's a very strong base and will eat away at paint if left on it. The foaming coil cleaner is the best stuff and the most available. Mix it, spray it on with a pump up sprayer (like the ones you spray weeds or pesticides with), let it foam for about 10-15 minutes, then -MOST IMPORTANT- rinse the crap out of it. I mean, when you think it's all washed off, rinse another 15 minutes with high pressure from inside the engine bay if possible. You won't believe the crap that comes out of those fins. This also works on the car's a/c if it doesn't cool very well anymore. I can't stress the rinsing enough though, if the cleaner is left on the aluminum, it deteriorates it over time.
Before I get flamed, I will say that I am an HVAC technician and most a/c coils this stuff is used on are aluminum, so there is no compatibility issue with coil material. Happy cooling!
One thing I've noticed that people tend to neglect from the overheating posts is how to effectively clean the fins on a radiator of any kind. The best method is to use air conditioner condenser coil cleaner available at any big home improvement store. Make sure to follow the mixing (dilution) directions, and whatever you do, DO NOT get it on your paint. It's a very strong base and will eat away at paint if left on it. The foaming coil cleaner is the best stuff and the most available. Mix it, spray it on with a pump up sprayer (like the ones you spray weeds or pesticides with), let it foam for about 10-15 minutes, then -MOST IMPORTANT- rinse the crap out of it. I mean, when you think it's all washed off, rinse another 15 minutes with high pressure from inside the engine bay if possible. You won't believe the crap that comes out of those fins. This also works on the car's a/c if it doesn't cool very well anymore. I can't stress the rinsing enough though, if the cleaner is left on the aluminum, it deteriorates it over time.
Before I get flamed, I will say that I am an HVAC technician and most a/c coils this stuff is used on are aluminum, so there is no compatibility issue with coil material. Happy cooling!
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08-25-2014, 08:44 AM
#179
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Appreciated Onyx. All my condensers on my bakery fridges need some serious love and I had forgotten till just now!
Also the VW radiator could stand a thorough cleaning after 85k miles.
Back on the subject at hand, what durable(weatherproof/heat resistant) foam/rubber/etc. Are people using around the edges of the radiator to further seal the cowling. I've seen Savington and a few others use different means of sealing the cracks between their cowling and the radiator.
I'm guessing your basic window foam tape would not be able to handle the heat and vacuum tubing would be hard to keep in place unless a lot of sealant was used to glue it to the cowling.
Also the VW radiator could stand a thorough cleaning after 85k miles.
Back on the subject at hand, what durable(weatherproof/heat resistant) foam/rubber/etc. Are people using around the edges of the radiator to further seal the cowling. I've seen Savington and a few others use different means of sealing the cracks between their cowling and the radiator.
I'm guessing your basic window foam tape would not be able to handle the heat and vacuum tubing would be hard to keep in place unless a lot of sealant was used to glue it to the cowling.
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08-25-2014, 11:45 AM
#180
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Window foam has worked surprisingly well for me to seal between the radiator and the radiator bracket. A doubled up layer to fill the gap, with a second layer behind it for buttressing. Without the buttress layer air pressure starts to force the sealing layer to yield, but with it in place everything has held fine so far this summer. Easy, cheap.
Vinyl tub/shower lining plus aluminum HVAC tape seals around the outside of the radiator bracket sides and bottom to the plastic air guide. Pics details in my track prep thread.
Vinyl tub/shower lining plus aluminum HVAC tape seals around the outside of the radiator bracket sides and bottom to the plastic air guide. Pics details in my track prep thread.
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