My gameplan so far - your advice? - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Race Prep Miata race-only chat.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-01-2015, 02:59 PM   #41
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,991
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Its actually not that grey. Curly did back to back dyno testing on gutted manifolds. Squaretop has been proven to make the mist power stock. And any NA engine is going to nee . Standalone to make the most power.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 04:43 PM   #42
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,924
Total Cats: 526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
And any Miata engine is going to need a standalone to make the most power.
FTFY
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 04:43 PM   #43
Hug Life
iTrader: (3)
 
Monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Huntington, Indiana
Posts: 2,798
Total Cats: 492
Default

This isn't really hearsay at all. Lars pretty much spelled out the winning NA formula already.
If going NA, buy standalone, 99 + 1.8 (VVT for more torques), racing beat header, $$$ suspension, 9" wheels, etc.
As far as intakes go; square top> VICS>VTCS.
All of this has been tested extensively by members here.

Edit: go read hornetball's red car build thread and watch some of his videos for enlightenment.
Monk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 05:08 PM   #44
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,991
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 06:02 PM   #45
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Mobius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,176
Total Cats: 261
Default

Aidan my car was dynoing at 193 @6800 rpm.

The cost-effective path to HPDE championship glory:

Stage 1.0: the base platform
a) 95r. OBD-1. Any 95 will do in a pinch though.
b) stock VVT motor + ms3. Note this is completely optional.
c) suspension. Eazy mode = Big Grip kit. Everything you need, and it's matched together. Questions about your suspension, one stop shop with Emilio.
d) tires - maxxis RC-1. 225/45 on 9" rims. Put 6ul's on your Big Grip order for Club Orange swank status.
e) duct airflow to the radiator to force airflow through it
f) Add Lightness : the single biggest improvement you can make to the car is to strip it. This theoretical car at ~2100 should be equivalent to my car last year (193whp, 2550) in straight line speed < 110 and slightly better in the corners.
Stock brakes should be fine for Stage 1. Any number of pads will work, Hawk DTC-30 or Cobalt XR-2 for the fronts would be my recommendations. But you've got lots of choices at stock power levels.

Note that you can leave the VVT motor + ms3 out of that, and everything is still awesome, just down a bit on power.

Stage 2.0: power
your best $/hp is going to be Rotrex. Your lowest maintenance solution for FI is going to be Rotrex. Bolt it on, and everything will just work. You can do this to your base 1.8 for an easy 200whp. Stock rods/pistons are fine. MS3 now if you haven't already.
* at this point radiator upgrade may be necessary. If still on stock radiator you probably should have done it already to get rid of plastic end tanks

* at this point brakes are necessary. EZ mode is TSE or 949 BBK. Recommended: TSE or Singular brake ducts. There are numerous examples of bestest brakes, which is either of those 11.75 BBK up front, nb2 sport rears, prop valve, and I believe the NB2 sport master cylinder.

* Cooling mods are likely mandatory at this point.
a) A reroute is a really good idea. Because OBD1, you can go the CNC spacer route. Simple. Inexpensive.

b) oil cooler. EZ mode is TSE oil cooler kit, mount it on the back of the radiator where the passenger fan goes.

c) if you are still having coolant temp issues, Singular hood vents
Stage 3 - moar power. moar money

Built motor - rods, ported head, better valve springs for overrev protection and to rev to 7500 consistently on track. Pistons optional depending on your desired power level. Note - based on Emilio's posts regarding life of the head when shifted past 7500, I wouldn't go above that on track. My head is built to be good to 8k but I'll be sticking to 7500 except for the occasional autocross.

You can change your pulley size at this point, or your wastegate, for more boost.

At any point you can add aero. See any number of cars for examples - mine, Crusher, Mr. Hyde's car, Lazarus, ThePass's car.


Lightweight + suspension + aero = fast car.

Add power = very fast car.


I'm receiving a vision from the future ... yes, it's coming in ... inb4 Voltwings posts on-track footage to this thread showing the Mustangs holding him up in the corners and refusing to lift on the straight
Mobius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 06:04 PM   #46
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,991
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Bravo, /thread.

Damn I'm pretty sure that's like the 3rd time in a week I quoted 175 for you. To your face even. Were you ever at 175 or was that a figment of my imagination.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 06:19 PM   #47
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Mobius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,176
Total Cats: 261
Default

I believe I've had 175 tq, which may explain your confusion, padawan. Tq and hp, not the same they are.
Mobius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 06:20 PM   #48
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,991
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Could be. Oh well, nice writeup.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 06:36 PM   #49
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE NM
Posts: 1,458
Total Cats: 48
Default

Bravo to Mobius!

Volt, if you did as much reading as you claim, then surely you saw EErock's build thread? He did the standard formula and got over 150 whp on a stock 01 header, but every other NA standard recipe part. There was no conjecture and he had dyno sheets.
Chilicharger665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 11:35 AM   #50
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 56
Total Cats: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
Aidan my car was dynoing at 193 @6800 rpm.

The cost-effective path to HPDE championship glory:

Stage 1.0: the base platform
a) 95r. OBD-1. Any 95 will do in a pinch though.
b) stock VVT motor + ms3. Note this is completely optional.
c) suspension. Eazy mode = Big Grip kit. Everything you need, and it's matched together. Questions about your suspension, one stop shop with Emilio.
d) tires - maxxis RC-1. 225/45 on 9" rims. Put 6ul's on your Big Grip order for Club Orange swank status.
e) duct airflow to the radiator to force airflow through it
f) Add Lightness : the single biggest improvement you can make to the car is to strip it. This theoretical car at ~2100 should be equivalent to my car last year (193whp, 2550) in straight line speed < 110 and slightly better in the corners.
Stock brakes should be fine for Stage 1. Any number of pads will work, Hawk DTC-30 or Cobalt XR-2 for the fronts would be my recommendations. But you've got lots of choices at stock power levels.

Note that you can leave the VVT motor + ms3 out of that, and everything is still awesome, just down a bit on power.

Stage 2.0: power
your best $/hp is going to be Rotrex. Your lowest maintenance solution for FI is going to be Rotrex. Bolt it on, and everything will just work. You can do this to your base 1.8 for an easy 200whp. Stock rods/pistons are fine. MS3 now if you haven't already.
* at this point radiator upgrade may be necessary. If still on stock radiator you probably should have done it already to get rid of plastic end tanks

* at this point brakes are necessary. EZ mode is TSE or 949 BBK. Recommended: TSE or Singular brake ducts. There are numerous examples of bestest brakes, which is either of those 11.75 BBK up front, nb2 sport rears, prop valve, and I believe the NB2 sport master cylinder.

* Cooling mods are likely mandatory at this point.
a) A reroute is a really good idea. Because OBD1, you can go the CNC spacer route. Simple. Inexpensive.

b) oil cooler. EZ mode is TSE oil cooler kit, mount it on the back of the radiator where the passenger fan goes.

c) if you are still having coolant temp issues, Singular hood vents
Stage 3 - moar power. moar money

Built motor - rods, ported head, better valve springs for overrev protection and to rev to 7500 consistently on track. Pistons optional depending on your desired power level. Note - based on Emilio's posts regarding life of the head when shifted past 7500, I wouldn't go above that on track. My head is built to be good to 8k but I'll be sticking to 7500 except for the occasional autocross.

You can change your pulley size at this point, or your wastegate, for more boost.

At any point you can add aero. See any number of cars for examples - mine, Crusher, Mr. Hyde's car, Lazarus, ThePass's car.


Lightweight + suspension + aero = fast car.

Add power = very fast car.


I'm receiving a vision from the future ... yes, it's coming in ... inb4 Voltwings posts on-track footage to this thread showing the Mustangs holding him up in the corners and refusing to lift on the straight
Copied, and saved to a word document so I can reference later ... kind of hard to argue with something like that, that is clearly a proven formula.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
Bravo to Mobius!

Volt, if you did as much reading as you claim, then surely you saw EErock's build thread? He did the standard formula and got over 150 whp on a stock 01 header, but every other NA standard recipe part. There was no conjecture and he had dyno sheets.
I think I'm just trying to have my cake and eat it too. I didn't want to accept the flat top / VICS manifold were better than my VTCS since mine makes more torque, but it is clearly a limiting factor on the top end. I'm just going to have to accept that minor torque loss for big gains on the top end. Who knows, I may be able to tune some of it back in with the VVT, but it just is what it is at this point.
Voltwings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 11:52 AM   #51
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,762
Total Cats: 47
Default

Here is my $.02 and i'm just a nobody.

BP motors are a huge pita to get power out of. every event i go to guys with turbos spend more time in the pits fixing this issue or that issue. if you are looking into having a fun track car you'll need to spend the money on good quality parts. Street cars you can get away with the cheap stuff. i would say avoid any kind of power adders. basically your trading reliability for 50hp. on some tracks that 50hp might be worth 1 sec/lap

If you do want power get a LS1. that's what i did. 500hp and reliable as a corvette. but if you do get that much power you will need upgraded brakes and suspension.
OGRacing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 12:53 PM   #52
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,009
Total Cats: 583
Default

Awwww, maaaan! I missed the party.

The focus on power is understandable. After all, you're driving your '01 Miata on the streets around Houston. When you push the "AC" button, your car turns into a 40HP VW Beetle. This, after driving a Mustang torque-monster for a couple of years. What can I say . . . on the street I either drive a Pontiac G8 w/LS3 or my turbo Miata.

But track, well, that's a different place entirely. How fast you can go and your lap time are determined much more by your MINIMUM speeds than by your TOP speeds. Your MINIMUM speed determines your speed for the entire lap. Your TOP speed, well, that's just a cool number on the vid at the end of one or maybe two straights. Giving it all away for power is a sucker's play. Here's a perfect illustration:


Wanna' be fast? Then focus on:

1. Reliability. Seat time bro'.

2. Weight. Affects everything, not just your time accelerating down a straight.

3. Grip. That's tires, suspension, balance. The formula is known. No reason to do things piece-meal unless you're just into wasting time and spending more over the long haul. BTW, a lot of us (including me) do waste time and spend more over the long haul by going cheap. It's hard to resist.

4. Power. Last for a reason.

Noobs and slow guys always put power first. Because, after all, it can't possibly be them that's slow (must be the car). LOL.
hornetball is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 01:31 PM   #53
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,762
Total Cats: 47
Default

^word
OGRacing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 02:04 PM   #54
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,308
Total Cats: 1,328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Awwww, maaaan! I missed the party.

The focus on power is understandable. After all, you're driving your '01 Miata on the streets around Houston. When you push the "AC" button, your car turns into a 40HP VW Beetle. This, after driving a Mustang torque-monster for a couple of years. What can I say . . . on the street I either drive a Pontiac G8 w/LS3 or my turbo Miata.

But track, well, that's a different place entirely. How fast you can go and your lap time are determined much more by your MINIMUM speeds than by your TOP speeds. Your MINIMUM speed determines your speed for the entire lap. Your TOP speed, well, that's just a cool number on the vid at the end of one or maybe two straights. Giving it all away for power is a sucker's play. Here's a perfect illustration:


Wanna' be fast? Then focus on:

1. Reliability. Seat time bro'.

2. Weight. Affects everything, not just your time accelerating down a straight.

3. Grip. That's tires, suspension, balance. The formula is known. No reason to do things piece-meal unless you're just into wasting time and spending more over the long haul. BTW, a lot of us (including me) do waste time and spend more over the long haul by going cheap. It's hard to resist.

4. Power. Last for a reason.

Noobs and slow guys always put power first. Because, after all, it can't possibly be them that's slow (must be the car). LOL.
This.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 02:43 PM   #55
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 743
Total Cats: 46
Default

I'll just say that adding F/I to a track miata makes for a fast car, but the consumables price starts going up as well.

I think the sweet spot for a these cars is a 140whp N/A build- keeping the engine as stock as possible. Get the power with engine management and bolt-ons, that way your engine replacement cost is low. You'll also be able to keep stock brakes, stock radiator, no fear of breaking transmissions etc.
dcamp2 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TTE Build - Help me pick tires chrisn Race Prep 27 10-16-2015 06:12 PM
Bp5a swap NA8 Will_da_beast Engine Performance 1 09-14-2015 08:06 PM
Interpreting Deatchwerks Dead Times from Battery Wizard compuw22c MEGAsquirt 0 09-14-2015 07:08 PM
VE values too low? compuw22c MEGAsquirt 4 09-12-2015 08:42 PM
New here, saying hi, here's what I'm workin with. SuperSneakySecretSquirrel Meet and Greet 5 09-06-2015 09:30 PM


Tags
power first!

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:14 PM.