My gameplan so far - your advice?
03-01-2015, 01:59 PM
#41
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Its actually not that grey. Curly did back to back dyno testing on gutted manifolds. Squaretop has been proven to make the mist power stock. And any NA engine is going to nee . Standalone to make the most power.
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03-01-2015, 03:43 PM
#43
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This isn't really hearsay at all. Lars pretty much spelled out the winning NA formula already.
If going NA, buy standalone, 99 + 1.8 (VVT for more torques), racing beat header, $$$ suspension, 9" wheels, etc.
As far as intakes go; square top> VICS>VTCS.
All of this has been tested extensively by members here.
Edit: go read hornetball's red car build thread and watch some of his videos for enlightenment.
If going NA, buy standalone, 99 + 1.8 (VVT for more torques), racing beat header, $$$ suspension, 9" wheels, etc.
As far as intakes go; square top> VICS>VTCS.
All of this has been tested extensively by members here.
Edit: go read hornetball's red car build thread and watch some of his videos for enlightenment.
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03-01-2015, 05:02 PM
#45
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Aidan my car was dynoing at 193 @6800 rpm.
The cost-effective path to HPDE championship glory:
Stage 1.0: the base platform
Note that you can leave the VVT motor + ms3 out of that, and everything is still awesome, just down a bit on power.
Stage 2.0: power
your best $/hp is going to be Rotrex. Your lowest maintenance solution for FI is going to be Rotrex. Bolt it on, and everything will just work. You can do this to your base 1.8 for an easy 200whp. Stock rods/pistons are fine. MS3 now if you haven't already.
Built motor - rods, ported head, better valve springs for overrev protection and to rev to 7500 consistently on track. Pistons optional depending on your desired power level. Note - based on Emilio's posts regarding life of the head when shifted past 7500, I wouldn't go above that on track. My head is built to be good to 8k but I'll be sticking to 7500 except for the occasional autocross.
You can change your pulley size at this point, or your wastegate, for more boost.
At any point you can add aero. See any number of cars for examples - mine, Crusher, Mr. Hyde's car, Lazarus, ThePass's car.
Lightweight + suspension + aero = fast car.
Add power = very fast car.
I'm receiving a vision from the future ... yes, it's coming in ... inb4 Voltwings posts on-track footage to this thread showing the Mustangs holding him up in the corners and refusing to lift on the straight
The cost-effective path to HPDE championship glory:
Stage 1.0: the base platform
a) 95r. OBD-1. Any 95 will do in a pinch though.
b) stock VVT motor + ms3. Note this is completely optional.
c) suspension. Eazy mode = Big Grip kit. Everything you need, and it's matched together. Questions about your suspension, one stop shop with Emilio.
d) tires - maxxis RC-1. 225/45 on 9" rims. Put 6ul's on your Big Grip order for Club Orange swank status.
e) duct airflow to the radiator to force airflow through it
f) Add Lightness : the single biggest improvement you can make to the car is to strip it. This theoretical car at ~2100 should be equivalent to my car last year (193whp, 2550) in straight line speed < 110 and slightly better in the corners.
Stock brakes should be fine for Stage 1. Any number of pads will work, Hawk DTC-30 or Cobalt XR-2 for the fronts would be my recommendations. But you've got lots of choices at stock power levels.b) stock VVT motor + ms3. Note this is completely optional.
c) suspension. Eazy mode = Big Grip kit. Everything you need, and it's matched together. Questions about your suspension, one stop shop with Emilio.
d) tires - maxxis RC-1. 225/45 on 9" rims. Put 6ul's on your Big Grip order for Club Orange swank status.
e) duct airflow to the radiator to force airflow through it
f) Add Lightness : the single biggest improvement you can make to the car is to strip it. This theoretical car at ~2100 should be equivalent to my car last year (193whp, 2550) in straight line speed < 110 and slightly better in the corners.
Note that you can leave the VVT motor + ms3 out of that, and everything is still awesome, just down a bit on power.
Stage 2.0: power
your best $/hp is going to be Rotrex. Your lowest maintenance solution for FI is going to be Rotrex. Bolt it on, and everything will just work. You can do this to your base 1.8 for an easy 200whp. Stock rods/pistons are fine. MS3 now if you haven't already.
* at this point radiator upgrade may be necessary. If still on stock radiator you probably should have done it already to get rid of plastic end tanks
* at this point brakes are necessary. EZ mode is TSE or 949 BBK. Recommended: TSE or Singular brake ducts. There are numerous examples of bestest brakes, which is either of those 11.75 BBK up front, nb2 sport rears, prop valve, and I believe the NB2 sport master cylinder.
* Cooling mods are likely mandatory at this point.
Stage 3 - moar power. moar money* at this point brakes are necessary. EZ mode is TSE or 949 BBK. Recommended: TSE or Singular brake ducts. There are numerous examples of bestest brakes, which is either of those 11.75 BBK up front, nb2 sport rears, prop valve, and I believe the NB2 sport master cylinder.
* Cooling mods are likely mandatory at this point.
a) A reroute is a really good idea. Because OBD1, you can go the CNC spacer route. Simple. Inexpensive.
b) oil cooler. EZ mode is TSE oil cooler kit, mount it on the back of the radiator where the passenger fan goes.
c) if you are still having coolant temp issues, Singular hood vents
b) oil cooler. EZ mode is TSE oil cooler kit, mount it on the back of the radiator where the passenger fan goes.
c) if you are still having coolant temp issues, Singular hood vents
Built motor - rods, ported head, better valve springs for overrev protection and to rev to 7500 consistently on track. Pistons optional depending on your desired power level. Note - based on Emilio's posts regarding life of the head when shifted past 7500, I wouldn't go above that on track. My head is built to be good to 8k but I'll be sticking to 7500 except for the occasional autocross.
You can change your pulley size at this point, or your wastegate, for more boost.
At any point you can add aero. See any number of cars for examples - mine, Crusher, Mr. Hyde's car, Lazarus, ThePass's car.
Lightweight + suspension + aero = fast car.
Add power = very fast car.
I'm receiving a vision from the future ... yes, it's coming in ... inb4 Voltwings posts on-track footage to this thread showing the Mustangs holding him up in the corners and refusing to lift on the straight
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03-01-2015, 05:04 PM
#46
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Bravo, /thread.
Damn I'm pretty sure that's like the 3rd time in a week I quoted 175 for you. To your face even. Were you ever at 175 or was that a figment of my imagination.
Damn I'm pretty sure that's like the 3rd time in a week I quoted 175 for you. To your face even. Were you ever at 175 or was that a figment of my imagination.
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03-03-2015, 10:35 AM
#50
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Aidan my car was dynoing at 193 @6800 rpm.
The cost-effective path to HPDE championship glory:
Stage 1.0: the base platform
Note that you can leave the VVT motor + ms3 out of that, and everything is still awesome, just down a bit on power.
Stage 2.0: power
your best $/hp is going to be Rotrex. Your lowest maintenance solution for FI is going to be Rotrex. Bolt it on, and everything will just work. You can do this to your base 1.8 for an easy 200whp. Stock rods/pistons are fine. MS3 now if you haven't already.
Built motor - rods, ported head, better valve springs for overrev protection and to rev to 7500 consistently on track. Pistons optional depending on your desired power level. Note - based on Emilio's posts regarding life of the head when shifted past 7500, I wouldn't go above that on track. My head is built to be good to 8k but I'll be sticking to 7500 except for the occasional autocross.
You can change your pulley size at this point, or your wastegate, for more boost.
At any point you can add aero. See any number of cars for examples - mine, Crusher, Mr. Hyde's car, Lazarus, ThePass's car.
Lightweight + suspension + aero = fast car.
Add power = very fast car.
I'm receiving a vision from the future ... yes, it's coming in ... inb4 Voltwings posts on-track footage to this thread showing the Mustangs holding him up in the corners and refusing to lift on the straight
The cost-effective path to HPDE championship glory:
Stage 1.0: the base platform
a) 95r. OBD-1. Any 95 will do in a pinch though.
b) stock VVT motor + ms3. Note this is completely optional.
c) suspension. Eazy mode = Big Grip kit. Everything you need, and it's matched together. Questions about your suspension, one stop shop with Emilio.
d) tires - maxxis RC-1. 225/45 on 9" rims. Put 6ul's on your Big Grip order for Club Orange swank status.
e) duct airflow to the radiator to force airflow through it
f) Add Lightness : the single biggest improvement you can make to the car is to strip it. This theoretical car at ~2100 should be equivalent to my car last year (193whp, 2550) in straight line speed < 110 and slightly better in the corners.
Stock brakes should be fine for Stage 1. Any number of pads will work, Hawk DTC-30 or Cobalt XR-2 for the fronts would be my recommendations. But you've got lots of choices at stock power levels.b) stock VVT motor + ms3. Note this is completely optional.
c) suspension. Eazy mode = Big Grip kit. Everything you need, and it's matched together. Questions about your suspension, one stop shop with Emilio.
d) tires - maxxis RC-1. 225/45 on 9" rims. Put 6ul's on your Big Grip order for Club Orange swank status.
e) duct airflow to the radiator to force airflow through it
f) Add Lightness : the single biggest improvement you can make to the car is to strip it. This theoretical car at ~2100 should be equivalent to my car last year (193whp, 2550) in straight line speed < 110 and slightly better in the corners.
Note that you can leave the VVT motor + ms3 out of that, and everything is still awesome, just down a bit on power.
Stage 2.0: power
your best $/hp is going to be Rotrex. Your lowest maintenance solution for FI is going to be Rotrex. Bolt it on, and everything will just work. You can do this to your base 1.8 for an easy 200whp. Stock rods/pistons are fine. MS3 now if you haven't already.
* at this point radiator upgrade may be necessary. If still on stock radiator you probably should have done it already to get rid of plastic end tanks
* at this point brakes are necessary. EZ mode is TSE or 949 BBK. Recommended: TSE or Singular brake ducts. There are numerous examples of bestest brakes, which is either of those 11.75 BBK up front, nb2 sport rears, prop valve, and I believe the NB2 sport master cylinder.
* Cooling mods are likely mandatory at this point.
Stage 3 - moar power. moar money* at this point brakes are necessary. EZ mode is TSE or 949 BBK. Recommended: TSE or Singular brake ducts. There are numerous examples of bestest brakes, which is either of those 11.75 BBK up front, nb2 sport rears, prop valve, and I believe the NB2 sport master cylinder.
* Cooling mods are likely mandatory at this point.
a) A reroute is a really good idea. Because OBD1, you can go the CNC spacer route. Simple. Inexpensive.
b) oil cooler. EZ mode is TSE oil cooler kit, mount it on the back of the radiator where the passenger fan goes.
c) if you are still having coolant temp issues, Singular hood vents
b) oil cooler. EZ mode is TSE oil cooler kit, mount it on the back of the radiator where the passenger fan goes.
c) if you are still having coolant temp issues, Singular hood vents
Built motor - rods, ported head, better valve springs for overrev protection and to rev to 7500 consistently on track. Pistons optional depending on your desired power level. Note - based on Emilio's posts regarding life of the head when shifted past 7500, I wouldn't go above that on track. My head is built to be good to 8k but I'll be sticking to 7500 except for the occasional autocross.
You can change your pulley size at this point, or your wastegate, for more boost.
At any point you can add aero. See any number of cars for examples - mine, Crusher, Mr. Hyde's car, Lazarus, ThePass's car.
Lightweight + suspension + aero = fast car.
Add power = very fast car.
I'm receiving a vision from the future ... yes, it's coming in ... inb4 Voltwings posts on-track footage to this thread showing the Mustangs holding him up in the corners and refusing to lift on the straight
Bravo to Mobius!
Volt, if you did as much reading as you claim, then surely you saw EErock's build thread? He did the standard formula and got over 150 whp on a stock 01 header, but every other NA standard recipe part. There was no conjecture and he had dyno sheets.
Volt, if you did as much reading as you claim, then surely you saw EErock's build thread? He did the standard formula and got over 150 whp on a stock 01 header, but every other NA standard recipe part. There was no conjecture and he had dyno sheets.
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03-03-2015, 10:52 AM
#51
Here is my $.02 and i'm just a nobody.
BP motors are a huge pita to get power out of. every event i go to guys with turbos spend more time in the pits fixing this issue or that issue. if you are looking into having a fun track car you'll need to spend the money on good quality parts. Street cars you can get away with the cheap stuff. i would say avoid any kind of power adders. basically your trading reliability for 50hp. on some tracks that 50hp might be worth 1 sec/lap
If you do want power get a LS1. that's what i did. 500hp and reliable as a corvette. but if you do get that much power you will need upgraded brakes and suspension.
BP motors are a huge pita to get power out of. every event i go to guys with turbos spend more time in the pits fixing this issue or that issue. if you are looking into having a fun track car you'll need to spend the money on good quality parts. Street cars you can get away with the cheap stuff. i would say avoid any kind of power adders. basically your trading reliability for 50hp. on some tracks that 50hp might be worth 1 sec/lap
If you do want power get a LS1. that's what i did. 500hp and reliable as a corvette. but if you do get that much power you will need upgraded brakes and suspension.
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800.934.9112
703.430.3303
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03-03-2015, 11:53 AM
#52
Awwww, maaaan! I missed the party.
The focus on power is understandable. After all, you're driving your '01 Miata on the streets around Houston. When you push the "AC" button, your car turns into a 40HP VW Beetle. This, after driving a Mustang torque-monster for a couple of years. What can I say . . . on the street I either drive a Pontiac G8 w/LS3 or my turbo Miata.
But track, well, that's a different place entirely. How fast you can go and your lap time are determined much more by your MINIMUM speeds than by your TOP speeds. Your MINIMUM speed determines your speed for the entire lap. Your TOP speed, well, that's just a cool number on the vid at the end of one or maybe two straights. Giving it all away for power is a sucker's play. Here's a perfect illustration:
Wanna' be fast? Then focus on:
1. Reliability. Seat time bro'.
2. Weight. Affects everything, not just your time accelerating down a straight.
3. Grip. That's tires, suspension, balance. The formula is known. No reason to do things piece-meal unless you're just into wasting time and spending more over the long haul. BTW, a lot of us (including me) do waste time and spend more over the long haul by going cheap. It's hard to resist.
4. Power. Last for a reason.
Noobs and slow guys always put power first. Because, after all, it can't possibly be them that's slow (must be the car). LOL.
The focus on power is understandable. After all, you're driving your '01 Miata on the streets around Houston. When you push the "AC" button, your car turns into a 40HP VW Beetle. This, after driving a Mustang torque-monster for a couple of years. What can I say . . . on the street I either drive a Pontiac G8 w/LS3 or my turbo Miata.
But track, well, that's a different place entirely. How fast you can go and your lap time are determined much more by your MINIMUM speeds than by your TOP speeds. Your MINIMUM speed determines your speed for the entire lap. Your TOP speed, well, that's just a cool number on the vid at the end of one or maybe two straights. Giving it all away for power is a sucker's play. Here's a perfect illustration:
Wanna' be fast? Then focus on:
1. Reliability. Seat time bro'.
2. Weight. Affects everything, not just your time accelerating down a straight.
3. Grip. That's tires, suspension, balance. The formula is known. No reason to do things piece-meal unless you're just into wasting time and spending more over the long haul. BTW, a lot of us (including me) do waste time and spend more over the long haul by going cheap. It's hard to resist.
4. Power. Last for a reason.
Noobs and slow guys always put power first. Because, after all, it can't possibly be them that's slow (must be the car). LOL.
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03-03-2015, 12:31 PM
#53
^word
__________________
OG Racing
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WWW.OGRACING.COM
800.934.9112
703.430.3303
info@ogracing.com
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Your Source For Motorsports Safety Equipment
WWW.OGRACING.COM
800.934.9112
703.430.3303
info@ogracing.com
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03-03-2015, 01:04 PM
#54
Awwww, maaaan! I missed the party.
The focus on power is understandable. After all, you're driving your '01 Miata on the streets around Houston. When you push the "AC" button, your car turns into a 40HP VW Beetle. This, after driving a Mustang torque-monster for a couple of years. What can I say . . . on the street I either drive a Pontiac G8 w/LS3 or my turbo Miata.
But track, well, that's a different place entirely. How fast you can go and your lap time are determined much more by your MINIMUM speeds than by your TOP speeds. Your MINIMUM speed determines your speed for the entire lap. Your TOP speed, well, that's just a cool number on the vid at the end of one or maybe two straights. Giving it all away for power is a sucker's play. Here's a perfect illustration:
Wanna' be fast? Then focus on:
1. Reliability. Seat time bro'.
2. Weight. Affects everything, not just your time accelerating down a straight.
3. Grip. That's tires, suspension, balance. The formula is known. No reason to do things piece-meal unless you're just into wasting time and spending more over the long haul. BTW, a lot of us (including me) do waste time and spend more over the long haul by going cheap. It's hard to resist.
4. Power. Last for a reason.
Noobs and slow guys always put power first. Because, after all, it can't possibly be them that's slow (must be the car). LOL.
The focus on power is understandable. After all, you're driving your '01 Miata on the streets around Houston. When you push the "AC" button, your car turns into a 40HP VW Beetle. This, after driving a Mustang torque-monster for a couple of years. What can I say . . . on the street I either drive a Pontiac G8 w/LS3 or my turbo Miata.
But track, well, that's a different place entirely. How fast you can go and your lap time are determined much more by your MINIMUM speeds than by your TOP speeds. Your MINIMUM speed determines your speed for the entire lap. Your TOP speed, well, that's just a cool number on the vid at the end of one or maybe two straights. Giving it all away for power is a sucker's play. Here's a perfect illustration:
Wanna' be fast? Then focus on:
1. Reliability. Seat time bro'.
2. Weight. Affects everything, not just your time accelerating down a straight.
3. Grip. That's tires, suspension, balance. The formula is known. No reason to do things piece-meal unless you're just into wasting time and spending more over the long haul. BTW, a lot of us (including me) do waste time and spend more over the long haul by going cheap. It's hard to resist.
4. Power. Last for a reason.
Noobs and slow guys always put power first. Because, after all, it can't possibly be them that's slow (must be the car). LOL.
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03-03-2015, 01:43 PM
#55
I'll just say that adding F/I to a track miata makes for a fast car, but the consumables price starts going up as well.
I think the sweet spot for a these cars is a 140whp N/A build- keeping the engine as stock as possible. Get the power with engine management and bolt-ons, that way your engine replacement cost is low. You'll also be able to keep stock brakes, stock radiator, no fear of breaking transmissions etc.
I think the sweet spot for a these cars is a 140whp N/A build- keeping the engine as stock as possible. Get the power with engine management and bolt-ons, that way your engine replacement cost is low. You'll also be able to keep stock brakes, stock radiator, no fear of breaking transmissions etc.
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