Possible for a 1.6 to be competitive in PTF/TTF with manly driving? - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Race Prep Miata race-only chat.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-19-2013, 05:51 PM   #21
Elite Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,054
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
I liked them for a track like Mid-Ohio with 3 huge straights.
lolz @ 3 huge straights?

Where are the other 2?
Efini~FC3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2013, 06:27 PM   #22
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 387
Total Cats: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
lolz @ 3 huge straights?

Where are the other 2?
in a 1.6, I would argue there are 10 straights !!!
bellwilliam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2013, 06:28 PM   #23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 387
Total Cats: 10
Default

btw, how fast is the winning PTF/TTF car compared to a SM ? or PTE/TTE ? at National.

Points will be moot. If ptf/ttf is only say 1 second slower than PTE

Last edited by bellwilliam; 07-19-2013 at 10:36 PM.
bellwilliam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2013, 01:57 AM   #24
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: KY
Posts: 700
Total Cats: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
lolz @ 3 huge straights?

Where are the other 2?
lol. Yeah... pretty much what william said. With 125hp, I definitely consider the pro course to have 3 long straights!
jpreston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 12:46 PM   #25
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mount Prospect, IL
Posts: 678
Total Cats: 3
Default

Just to ad to this... I did a very silly thing and ran skinny little STREET tires size 175s so I could downclass my 95 1.8 Spec Miata to be in PTF to get the PTF regional points for a weekend. It was horrible and I won't be doing that again unless it was the only way I could get points for my class. The problem with the little 175s was braking and cornering (pretty much what you need tires most for). I had to play this timid braking game to be able to actually stop and the turns.. well, it made my Miata feel more like a Mustang (haha). I was 10 to 12 seconds off the pace of properly tired Toyo RR 205 spec miatas. I did have lots of point and laughs as I did the weekend on donuts though!


Funny little side story though... Once upon a time there was this guy with a 2003 Miata who 'downclassed' to TTF with his tire size and he (at one time) held almost all the TTF records for the Midwest and Great Lakes regions but a 4 door FWD Infiniti G20 sedan got rid of almost all his records (usually by 5 to 7 seconds actually). His only 'standing' record right now in TTF is a track NASA Midwest has not returned to (and will not return to I'm told) so we simply didn't get the opportunity to take away that record... lol
chris101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 04:06 AM   #26
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 387
Total Cats: 10
Default

I didn't know you can downgrade a class. How does that work?
bellwilliam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 08:02 AM   #27
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mount Prospect, IL
Posts: 678
Total Cats: 3
Default

^ It is pretty simple. You get points back (subtract points) when you downgrade the tire size and using a street tire means no + points. Needless to say, you get a lot of points to subtract using 175s
chris101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 12:30 PM   #28
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,371
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris101 View Post
^ It is pretty simple. You get points back (subtract points) when you downgrade the tire size and using a street tire means no + points. Needless to say, you get a lot of points to subtract using 175s
I'm pretty sure you can't run below your normal base class without getting a dyno reclass.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 01:06 PM   #29
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mount Prospect, IL
Posts: 678
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I'm pretty sure you can't run below your normal base class without getting a dyno reclass.
^ Incorrect. You might want to read the PT rules again and take a look at the top of page 18 where it clearly talks about tire points. (including how you can add or subtract points)


http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/p...ring_rules.pdf

Tire width points assessed or points credited are determined by the difference between the
width of the largest tire on the vehicle and the assigned base tire size as follows:
Equal to or greater than: 10mm +1, 20mm +4, 30mm +7, 40mm +10, 50mm +13,
60mm +16, 70mm +19, 80mm +22, 90mm +25, 100mm +28, 110mm +31, 120mm +34, etc.
Equal to or less than: -10mm -1, -20mm -4, -30mm -7, -40mm -10, -50mm -13, -60mm -16,
-70mm -19, -80mm -22, -90mm -25, -100mm -28, -110mm -31, -120mm -34, etc.
chris101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 01:10 PM   #30
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris101 View Post
^ Incorrect. You might want to read the PT rules again and take a look at the top of page 18 where it clearly talks about tire points. (including how you can add or subtract points)

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/p...ring_rules.pdf

Tire width points assessed or points credited are determined by the difference between the
width of the largest tire on the vehicle and the assigned base tire size as follows:
Equal to or greater than: 10mm +1, 20mm +4, 30mm +7, 40mm +10, 50mm +13,
60mm +16, 70mm +19, 80mm +22, 90mm +25, 100mm +28, 110mm +31, 120mm +34, etc.
Equal to or less than: -10mm -1, -20mm -4, -30mm -7, -40mm -10, -50mm -13, -60mm -16,
-70mm -19, -80mm -22, -90mm -25, -100mm -28, -110mm -31, -120mm -34, etc.
lol @ thinking Al-Queda sympathizer Greenbaum will let this happen.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 01:11 PM   #31
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris101 View Post
^ Incorrect. You might want to read the PT rules again and take a look at the top of page 18 where it clearly talks about tire points. (including how you can add or subtract points)

Dude is hard as ****.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 01:12 PM   #32
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mount Prospect, IL
Posts: 678
Total Cats: 3
Default

Keep in mind the skinnier tires typically won't help you anyway (they certainly showed me how ill-handling a Miata can be being so far off the pace!)

I can assure you the miata on 175 street tires was far from competitive in PTF (and not much fun to drive either)
chris101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 01:13 PM   #33
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,371
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris101 View Post
^ Incorrect. You might want to read the PT rules again and take a look at the top of page 18 where it clearly talks about tire points. (including how you can add or subtract points)

Keep in mind the skinnier tires typically won't help you anyway (they certainly showed me how ill-handling a Miata can be being so far off the pace!)

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/p...ring_rules.pdf
Trust me when I say that I'm well versed in the PT rulebook. I'm quite aware of the way tire points work, but what I'm saying is that I don't you can't drop below your base class by running a skinny tire. If a 1.6L PTF** Miata were to run a 205mm wire, he would get 1 point back, but if a 1.8L PTE Miata were to run a 225mm wide tire, I strongly doubt Greg would allow it to run PTF as a 19pt car without a dyno reclass.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 01:14 PM   #34
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris101 View Post
Keep in mind the skinnier tires typically won't help you anyway (they certainly showed me how ill-handling a Miata can be being so far off the pace!)

I can assure you the miata on 175 street tires was far from competitive in PTF (and not much fun to drive either)
crybabyshit.txt
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 01:15 PM   #35
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Trust me when I say that I'm well versed in the PT rulebook. I'm quite aware of the way tire points work, but what I'm saying is that I don't you can't drop below your base class by running a skinny tire. If a 1.6L PTF** Miata were to run a 205mm wire, he would get 1 point back, but if a 1.8L PTE Miata were to run a 225mm wide tire, I strongly doubt Greg would allow it to run PTF as a 19pt car.
I strongly doubt you're aware my dangling majesty is currently engorged.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 01:27 PM   #36
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mount Prospect, IL
Posts: 678
Total Cats: 3
Default

seems like a lot of testosterone here boys

FYI Tidbit: That 2003 Miata I told you about that 'downclassed' to F class by tire size participated at NASA Nationals with that car in the past (2 different years actually I believe but I'd have to look it up to make sure) <-- It was as a TTF car though (not PTF)


Edit: ...just checked (looked it up)

Bill participated at NASA Nationals in TTF with his 2003 Miata back in 2006 and 2007 (he was also the TT Group Leader for NASA Greatlakes and Midwest at that time IIRC)
chris101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 01:41 PM   #37
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mount Prospect, IL
Posts: 678
Total Cats: 3
Default

..and um guys, you might want to take a look at what Greg himself said about it:

"It is permitted, and rarely happens. You must still be compliant with the limit on Adjusted Wt/Hp ratio for that class. Since the only credit points are for tire size, it means that you are running on smaller tires, probably street tires, and have little or no mods to the vehicle otherwise."

nasaforums.com &bull; View topic - UP-classing (or down?)
chris101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 02:02 PM   #38
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,371
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris101 View Post
..and um guys, you might want to take a look at what Greg himself said about it:

"It is permitted, and rarely happens. You must still be compliant with the limit on Adjusted Wt/Hp ratio for that class. Since the only credit points are for tire size, it means that you are running on smaller tires, probably street tires, and have little or no mods to the vehicle otherwise."

nasaforums.com &bull; View topic - UP-classing (or down?)
Color me shocked.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 02:06 PM   #39
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mount Prospect, IL
Posts: 678
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
btw, how fast is the winning PTF/TTF car compared to a SM ? or PTE/TTE ? at National.

Points will be moot. If ptf/ttf is only say 1 second slower than PTE

For MIDO-->

1995 Infiniti G20 at 2011 NASA Nationals set the new TTF track record with a 1:46.345

Meanwhile, in 2012, the PTF track record (and 2nd place finisher) was (1:47.130) for PTF by Walter Carlos in an Rx7 (g20 was 1st place but slower lap time)


Meanwhile, SM fastest lap time in 2012 at MidO was a 1:43 and PTE was 1:41.684 in a Honda CRX


^ bottom line is I highly doubt a PTF/TTF Miata will be as competitive
chris101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 02:07 PM   #40
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mount Prospect, IL
Posts: 678
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Color me shocked.

chris101 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
New M62 Miata owner Pist0n Meet and Greet 4 10-01-2015 09:18 PM
Going back to stock. Need some 1.6 parts. Trent WTB 2 10-01-2015 01:15 PM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:41 PM.