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Old 09-01-2015, 12:01 PM   #21
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Not sure with the hydra. If you can get CAN out then any BT OBDII reader can do it.
The Hydra only has serial out and apparently only works with AIM...? Haven't been able to find that something else would work. As Ian pointed out earlier, the Hydra is only going to give me two outputs: TPS and RPM (which is pretty disappointing). So tapping into sensors sounds like the best option, but not sure what products are out there that would be a good fit. If there is another BT device that can relay that data to a phone app, then I'm all for your GPS module.
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Old 09-01-2015, 12:13 PM   #22
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I'm half wondering if I could get away with buying a cheap used laptop and use the Hydra Nemesis software to datalog, and just sync up the data I want later...?
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Old 09-01-2015, 12:14 PM   #23
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Yes you can definitely do that
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Old 09-01-2015, 12:18 PM   #24
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Hmm... So perhaps a laptop would be my second choice then.

Is there anything better out there that doesn't cost more than the car?
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:19 PM   #25
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<p>Can you onboard data log with the 2.5?</p><p>That would be easy.</p>
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:19 PM   #26
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<p>Looks like some versions also suppport canbus.</p>
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:21 PM   #27
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The Hydra only has serial out and apparently only works with AIM...? Haven't been able to find that something else would work. As Ian pointed out earlier, the Hydra is only going to give me two outputs: TPS and RPM (which is pretty disappointing). So tapping into sensors sounds like the best option, but not sure what products are out there that would be a good fit. If there is another BT device that can relay that data to a phone app, then I'm all for your GPS module.
Oh, it'll give you more outputs than that -- I just don't think you really care about logging things like coolant temperature and spark ignition on your video. TPS and RPM are, IMHO, the only things it will log that are relevant to the question of how to improve one's driving.

2.5 logs to serial only, no SD card, no CAN bus.

Syncing up the data later is hard, at least if you want it accurate to within 100 ms (Hydra logs at around 10 Hz, so one data line). You need a sync event that can be seen unambiguously on both logging devices, and you probably need it to be periodic so that you can resync them when the clock rates drift. After that you need to interpolate one of the data streams to the clock rate of the other one. The interpolation is fairly straightforward (although you'll need to write the code to do it yourself, because I doubt there's anything off-the-shelf that does exactly the right thing), but coming up with a periodic sync event that exists both in the existing Hydra-logged data as well as in your second data device is tricky.

--Ian
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Old 09-01-2015, 03:17 PM   #28
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Throttle and RPM would be nice to haves, but I wouldn't go nuts to get them. RPM's biggest value, IMO is what gear you're in, and more specifically whether you're in right gear for each corner. I suspect you can get most of that data comparing lap to lap in data and video. Throttle would be nice to have, especially knowing if you're lifting when you shouldn't, but it's not the end of the world. You can still get a lot of information without those data points.

I'm a big fan of the AIM software. I've played around with a few of the app based things. The software is okay, but AIM's is well developed, and better suited to real driver/car development than the apps. I'm running a Mychron based setup that's great, but if I was going to do it again, I'd buy a Solo and be done with it.
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Old 09-03-2015, 12:50 AM   #29
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Oh, it'll give you more outputs than that -- I just don't think you really care about logging things like coolant temperature and spark ignition on your video. TPS and RPM are, IMHO, the only things it will log that are relevant to the question of how to improve one's driving.

2.5 logs to serial only, no SD card, no CAN bus.

Syncing up the data later is hard, at least if you want it accurate to within 100 ms (Hydra logs at around 10 Hz, so one data line). You need a sync event that can be seen unambiguously on both logging devices, and you probably need it to be periodic so that you can resync them when the clock rates drift. After that you need to interpolate one of the data streams to the clock rate of the other one. The interpolation is fairly straightforward (although you'll need to write the code to do it yourself, because I doubt there's anything off-the-shelf that does exactly the right thing), but coming up with a periodic sync event that exists both in the existing Hydra-logged data as well as in your second data device is tricky.

--Ian
Thanks for clarifying, Ian. For the sake of learning and improving, yes, those are the only two that would be helpful. For shaking down the car on the track for the first time, it would be nice to capture a little more data and actually watch coolant temperature.

Good points on syncing up data and clock drift... Didn't really think about that.

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Throttle and RPM would be nice to haves, but I wouldn't go nuts to get them. RPM's biggest value, IMO is what gear you're in, and more specifically whether you're in right gear for each corner. I suspect you can get most of that data comparing lap to lap in data and video. Throttle would be nice to have, especially knowing if you're lifting when you shouldn't, but it's not the end of the world. You can still get a lot of information without those data points.

I'm a big fan of the AIM software. I've played around with a few of the app based things. The software is okay, but AIM's is well developed, and better suited to real driver/car development than the apps. I'm running a Mychron based setup that's great, but if I was going to do it again, I'd buy a Solo and be done with it.
Thanks for sharing your thought on the AIM software and the Solo. I think I might just bite the bullet and get a Solo DL for $700... Sometime before next season.



On a different note: I sized up the roll bar and saw what William at Track Dog Racing was talking about... The M1 HC Roll Bar sits higher and more forward - that can be a problem for tall people who both have the seat all the way back and sit really high in the car. I don't have the seat all the way back, so I won't strike my head on the bar, but I sit tall. With a helmet on, the helmet sits about an inch above the roll bar. :/ I guess I am buying a race seat as well... And that probably means a harness as well. Damn, this is getting more and more expensive just to get on the track.
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Old 09-03-2015, 01:16 AM   #30
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Old 09-03-2015, 01:19 AM   #31
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I guess I am buying a race seat as well... And that probably means a harness as well. Damn, this is getting more and more expensive just to get on the track.
A race seat by itself won't buy you all that much. Cut the rear seat mounts out of the floor pan and bolt the race seat to the floor with custom brackets, that'll drop you 3-4 inches.

--Ian
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Old 09-03-2015, 01:22 AM   #32
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<p>aluminum seat on the floor gives me lik 6 inch drop over stock</p><p>foamectomy plus rear mount removal will drop a decent amount.</p><p>also ive never been broomstick tested here</p>
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Old 09-03-2015, 03:15 AM   #33
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The previous owner took out a bunch of foam from the stock seat and there isn't much left to remove. It's made a noticeable difference... In a stock NA, I don't fit comfortably under the top. In my car, there is quite a bit of head room until I have a helmet on... Then its interference again.

This is the list of stuff Track Dog Racing suggested I get based on my fit and my intended use for the car:
Hard Dog M1 Hard Core - $525 (x-brace)
Ultra Shield TDR Rally Sport Seat - $378
TDR Seat Rails 90-05 - $89
Ultra Shield Cam Lock Harness - $177
Ultra Shield Harness Clip-ins - $3 each

He said the X-brace has clip-in locations instead of a bar, so I could install both the seat and the harness for track days, and then go back to the stock seat and seat belt for the street. I like the idea of putting the stock seat back in. This would give me 2" apparently, but that might not be enough. See attached picture.
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Old 09-03-2015, 03:17 AM   #34
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Old 09-03-2015, 03:27 AM   #35
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Personally, I'm not a fan of aluminum seats, I'd rather have FIA-approved composite ones. I have Recaro Pole Positions, they're a good streetable race seat. They do cost quite a bit more, though.

You gain huge amounts of vertical clearance by cutting out the rear seat mounts, but that removes the ability to easily bolt the factory seat back in.

--Ian
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Old 09-04-2015, 02:29 PM   #36
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Reading some of the back and forth on slicks, intermediate run groups, etc.

Been instructing with NASA for a bit now- helping run events in other capacities for about 3 years, as well as race TT with them and started track days with them back in the day.

For most drivers, quick advancement through the run group levels should be done with caution. Being in the intermediate and advanced run groups isn't just about putting down fast times, it's about fully understanding track etiquette. How to merge in and out of pit lane, being hyper aware of cars coming up on you and where, when and how to give them safe point byes. Being hyperaware of not just the straight in front of you, and the turn way up ahead, but also the flagger that you're driving past, considering how close you'll be to that car you've been catching up to when you're going over that blind hill, or being aware of that vette that just barely popped into your rear view when you were in the middle of the straight, and knowing you'll probably need to position yourself to give a point by in 4-5 turns, and knowing without a doubt what the black flag, or red flag, or black flag with red circle means when you see it, and acting accordingly.

Even if you can go and do a hot lap within a few seconds of SM records, driving safely with all that in mind simply takes building up track hours.

Case in point- this was posted by some kid I'm in a facebook group with. He's been throwing money at his Miata. Turbo, semi-built engine, full (poser-boi) aero, shitty coilovers. He did two track days with SCCA Track Night in America with no turbo yet, but on 245 Maxxis. Then he strapped the turbo on and 275 R7s, promoted himself up to the advanced run group (I seriously don't understand this TNiA ****), and stuffed it into his buddy (also novice with too much tire, aero and power) after giving him a point by at the end of the front straight.

Lap two, first session.



This is a an extreme case, but too often I see people show up with big power and big, r-comp tires, and it's their first or second track day, and ****, I certainly don't want to be getting into the car with them, or have other people be on track with them.

Anyway, /rant. Obviously most people here get it, but with the considerations about tires and run groups on the first page, figured I'd try to drive the point home.
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Old 09-04-2015, 02:39 PM   #37
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<p>SCCA track night is a shitshow.</p><p>Will never run with them again. Don't want to die.</p><p>I did about 8 track days in novice. And wouldn't hesitate to go back to novice if on a new track.</p><p>At both PIR and Thunderhill I now run intermediate, because novice just got to be boring. I plan to stay in intermediate for a lonnnnggg time. Point by's still required, only passing on the straights, but a few less horribly slow people.</p><p>That being said, if I ever do a track day at a new venue, I will still go novice.</p>
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Old 09-04-2015, 08:43 PM   #38
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Hm. Front-right to front-right impact? Someone must have spun?

--Ian
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Old 09-04-2015, 10:01 PM   #39
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Damn shame. That miata looks like mine + aero too.

I did one SCCA track nights at Thompson. It was sketchy. People showing up in shitboxes with no tech... advanced groups that are slower than any I have ever seen before... and two MASSIVE novice groups that were basically lines of noobs with no clue.
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Old 09-05-2015, 12:13 AM   #40
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Hm. Front-right to front-right impact? Someone must have spun?

--Ian
According to the description in the instagram post, the miata pointed by the s2000 in the last part of the straight, and then the s2000 spun while breaking for t1. Sounds like they were dragging down the straight and then ran out of talent.


240- that sounds miserable at Thompson. It's such a tight course that even with a well run event, if there are any kinds of numbers it turns into trains. Scca Track night there sounds terrible.
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