tfbmiata

Hi All - I read through the turbo thread for track days sticky, but it was unclear what advice was for HPDE plebs vs. actual turbo miata race guys, so I wanted to try to clear up some questions.

I was able to find a local guy selling off most of his turbo setup for fairly inexpensive and wanted to get everyone's opinions. I've read a lot of the posts but thought since there's very few new posts, you guys need someone to flame. My goal is to run roughly 180 to 220whp, but really basically enough to make it feel like the nb2 I have isn't "slow" in every straight. I am at the point where i'm keeping up with most things on ultra high performance tires in the twisty bits but way off in every straight to just about everything. I'll be doing the 20 to 40 minute HPDE session style of running.

My Car:

• '02 LS 6 speed w/ LSD
• Koni Yellow w/ GC Springs
• Front/Rear FM sways
• Upgraded radiator
• Gauges set for oil temp/press water temp/press
• Hard Dog Roll bar & floor pan drop w/ bucket seat sand 5 point harness
• ACT 6 Puck/Heavy Duty Press Plat/Fidanza fly wheel (315 lb-ft rated)
• Innovative 60A motor mounts
• All suspension bushings upgraded (done before i got the car so no info)
• LS model upgraded brakes w/ new rotors and Hawk Blue pads around and 3" brack duct kit from singular
• Stock motor, just did a new rear main, going to be doing a front main and timing belt/water pump job
• I just bought a boat load of replacement/upgraded coolant hoses to replace all the aging crap
• Tires are Contenintal Extreme Contact 02 - treadwear 300. I am guessing these will stop surviving turbo'd track days and i'll have to move up to tw 200 tires.

Hardware

• Borgwarner EFR6258
• Fab9 intercooler and vband manifold downpipe
• Piping is all custom tig welded, looks aluminum
• MS3Pro (still need to find a local dyno/tuner to setup a few tunes as well as build in safety nets for lean/hot issues)
• I need to figure out what injectors to run, I've been recommended RX8 yellow top, but honestly I just want something that isn't ****
• Dropping the subframe/pulling engine to do the oil pan

I will run mostly in the south east region, so 50F up to 90F.

A few questions:

1. Should an oil cooler be considered required?
2. Does the tubular non-cast fab9 manifold hold up to track day temps? Reviews I find is it is best on the market, but it is not a cast manifold.
3. Should a turbo 'blanket' or thermal cover be required? I have a heat shield on the brake master cylinder and planned on wrapping anything I could even remotely around the turbo.
4. Is the coolant reroute necessary? (FM's own video seemed to downplay it's importance in nb2 vvt motors due to headgasket change)
5. Suggestions on a 'track' worthy injector?
6. Is 93 Octane enough (i saw E85 mentioned at the end of the thread for HPDE track toy)?
7. Is epoxying the throttle plate still a thing non HPDE toys?

Thanks everyone. If you would prefer, I'm happy to repost this in that thread so its all in one place.

Z_WAAAAAZ

I don’t have answers to every one of your questions, but as someone who’s running a car that is basically what you’re shooting to build here’s my two cents.

-100% yes on an oil cooler. I run a TrackDog racing kit. Original oil cooler with the kit worked great until a piece of asphalt smashed into it. I replaced it with a Setrab 25 row and am still running it. My oil temps would’ve been way too hot on track at above 75-80 degrees ambient without the cooler

-Turbo blanket shouldn’t be required but heat shielding is a definite yes. My car survived a couple track days without a heat shield but I wouldn’t risk it.

-Definitely still do a coolant reroute even on an unopened NB2 engine. SuperMiata recommends this and claims you’ll still see better cooling performance even with the revised head gasket design

-I run 91 octane on track with my car. It’s always worked fine for me. Just make sure your tune is safe for it and you have safety measures taken care of like MAT and CLT based timing retard.

-RX8 injectors will work but will fall way short of the EFR6258’s potential. We’ve all said “200-220whp will be enough for me!” but you’re probably going to want more power and more boost at some point and then you’ll be buying injectors twice. I personally started with FlowForce 640s and I’m about to get rid of them to buy 1000cc injectors. Plenty of similar stories on this site.

Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

A few questions:

1. Should an oil cooler be considered required? - Yes 19row or bigger from a quality manufacture based on TSE's experience shared here years ago.
2. Does the tubular non-cast fab9 manifold hold up to track day temps? Reviews I find is it is best on the market, but it is not a cast manifold. - No experience, but cast manifolds are almost always more robust. Kraken is the go to for quality cast manifolds that hold up well to track abuse.
3. Should a turbo 'blanket' or thermal cover be required? I have a heat shield on the brake master cylinder and planned on wrapping anything I could even remotely around the turbo. - Opinions are going to vary. Some will say blanket, some will say heat shields. I'm of the heat shield camp. Keeping all the head in the turbo seems like it would shorten the life of the CHRA and hardparts. I built shields to keep some heat away from the brake system and intake.
4. Is the coolant reroute necessary? (FM's own video seemed to downplay it's importance in nb2 vvt motors due to headgasket change) - Yes. Even VVT motors benefit from them.
5. Suggestions on a 'track' worthy injector?
6. Is 93 Octane enough (i saw E85 mentioned at the end of the thread for HPDE track toy)? - For your power goals, yes. E85 fueled cars run cooler, so there is some benefit there.
7. Is epoxying the throttle plate still a thing non HPDE toys? - Doesn't solve the issue of the throttle plate shaft braking. Go straight to a Skunk2 (or knock-off if you want to deal with various fitment issues)

tfbmiata

Is this like a 300whp thing or a 180 to 220whp thing?

Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

It is any tracked Miata thing. I broke one at 150-160whp. It's likely due to the inherent vibrations from the BP motor over extended high RPM use.

tfbmiata

welp, skunk2 here I come.

Gee Emm

Do search on here for the fixes for the poor QC on these, they are not optional (says someone with experience of fitting three of them). But as Midtenn says, they are the only reliable fix for that problem, and the fixes are easy.

tfbmiata

Sorry, I thought he was saying the skunk2 TB is what I should get? Are you saying the skunk2 ones have poor QC? I was saying 'here I come' meaning I'm buying one. I saw something about epoxying the nuts but when he said the whole shaft could break, I figured it is just less headache to do the entire TB replacement.

Z_WAAAAAZ

Yes, the Skunk2 throttle bodies have poor QC and a handful of issues out of the box. However, the issues are easily fixed and the a "massaged" Skunk2 TB is preferable to a stock throttle body (you don't have to worry about the engine swallowing a throttle plate bolt or the throttle plate shaft snapping off).

Lots of documentation on here about the fixes for the out of the box S2 TB issues. Nothing too painful or time consuming.

tfbmiata

Ah! Thanks, I'll use the search and make sure its done. I'm picking up one tonight even!

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Replace front FM sway with much larger 1.125" RB
Replace FM rear sway with smaller 14mm/ MSM
"upgraded" as in OEM from auto trans or all aluminum? If OEM, swap for all 33-39mm aluminum
Brakes will not be adequate for intermediate to advanced driver on 200tw. hop for 11.75 x 1.1 or 1.25" with 7420 pad size
If on old stock engine, run thicker synthetic, like 20w50
add a Setrab oil cooler with -10 lines
15x10 with 245/40 ideally, but 15x9 at minimum. 200tw
Recommend a crane or support for turbo to avoid cracking and loose fasteners on manifold
195500-4450 Denso RX8 injectors went out of production about a decade ago. Everything I see now are mystery meat aliexpress. Too small in any case. E85 will need much more injector. Good calculators online to figure out size. We like Injector Dynamics, Deatschwerks, Flowforce
Heat shields and coatings. Blankets cook CHRA's
93 is fine for your goals. Corn is better but can be a PITA logistically
Yes, epoxy the stock plate. Option is a Junk2 but blueprint it. Out of the box they are a bunch less reliable than OEM.
Reroute. Yes
Hood vents. Yes
Fully seal radiator and undertray. Yes
Motul 75W90 GL4 or Motorcraft "unicorn juice" in trans

my .02

Lokiel

Emilio's "Replace front FM sway with much larger 1.125" RB, Replace FM rear sway with smaller 14mm/MSM" reflect what I, and other MSM owners found, DESPITE the Racing Beat Sway Bar recommendations

I sold my 1.25" RB sway bar not long after installing it due to understeer issues and was happier with the RB 1.125" sway bar.

Larger sway bars also put way too much stress on the flimsy OEM sway bar mounting braces so install the Supermiata Sway Bar mount blocks or Racing Beat Sway Bar mount blocks too.

I'm not a fan of turbo blankets or wraps, you won't know if there are any cracks until they become a big issue.
For this reason, if you have an enclosed turbo heat shield, it should be easy to remove to routinely inspect the turbo, otherwise you'll keep putting it off.

SlowTeg

1. For your power level, I would say a tubular manifold is just not worth any marginal efficiency/power gains. There are cast manifolds that everyone runs (FM, Kraken) that I prefer for a track car. Also, I personally think v-bands aren't all they're made out to be. I've had issues with my manifold->turbo v-band loosening with heat cycles, so it needs locking hardware just like the regular t25 flange. It also makes things harder to line up.
2. My first principle when modifying cars is "what would oems do?" Oems always use heatshielding for important parts, and sometimes multiple for different parts. So heatshielding is obviously a no brainer. Turbo blankets I think are just a nice band aid sort of solution if you can't get a nice heatshielding over the hot side of the turbo. They will likely increase the wear on the turbine housing but that's a tradeoff we have to make and is maybe worth it. One thing I would like to see more with these aftermarket turbo kits is solid/hard lines for coolant/oil close to the turbo that switch to "soft" lines away from the turbo. Most OEMs do this, whereas aftermarket usually just does a braided soft line right to the center section. I think a blanket likely helps the heat stay away from the coolant/oil "soft" lines which is good but at the expense of trapping more heat in the turbine housing.