Serious cooling ducts and hood vents (think gt40) Now with pics
05-20-2011, 09:08 PM
#41
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Good question. I was going to say intake, but now I'm not so sure... LeMans cars usually breathe through some laughably small restrictors, so a duct that long would not be a huge determent. (That would explain the modest 485bhp from the "tiny" 3999cc DOHC V8)
http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/up...2969bbda_o.jpg
http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/02/20/photos-bmw-m3-gtr/
You know... if that's your thing
http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/up...2969bbda_o.jpg
http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/02/20/photos-bmw-m3-gtr/
You know... if that's your thing
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05-20-2011, 09:18 PM
#42
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Not intakes for sure. The intakes are the 2 small rods under those ducts.
Edit: Found it:
Bunch of pictures of that car here. It's borderline pornography: http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009...he-m3-gt2.aspx
Edit: Found it:
Originally Posted by http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/1556/pageid/2013/a-look-inside-the-rahal-letterman-alms-gt-bmw-m3-coupes.aspx
The engine compartment air management is amazing. Everything is done to increase downforce and minimize drag. The air from the lower part of the grill opening is fed by streamlined ducts through the engine coolant heat exchangers then out the top of the hood. The curved ducts supply air to the rear mounted heat exchangers for the engine oil, transaxle and air conditioning systems. The center grill ducts feed the engine and are designed to develop positive pressure before the inlet restrictors. Everything is dry carbon, even the wheelhouse liners!
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05-20-2011, 09:28 PM
#43
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Yeah, looking at it again, there are 2 small carbon fiber tubes with hump connectors underneath those long ducts that run to the nose. My bet is those are the intakes.
Edit: Yep, you got it on that SpeedHunters link: "Up front, you can see the two 29.4 mm restrictors which restrict the 4L V8 engine to "less than 500 hp".... That's all the team would tell me!"
Edit: Yep, you got it on that SpeedHunters link: "Up front, you can see the two 29.4 mm restrictors which restrict the 4L V8 engine to "less than 500 hp".... That's all the team would tell me!"
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05-21-2011, 07:13 AM
#44
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Again look at the brown/maroon part here, this clearly shows how the rest of the bay will get air.
If this wasnt here how would the engine bay be a high pressure area? Its sealed off by the radiator duct.
Leatherface you agree with sav, i still dont undertant how the engine bay could be high pressure wheb the only major opening is the trans tunnel which is low pressure due to the air being pulled through due to the wake at the rear of the car. And maybe im an idiot but isnt the lift on the front of the car due to the flat undertray but the curved bonnet? I mean the front of the car is the same shqpe as the front of an airplane wing. Isnt it the total shape of the car not the airflow in the engine bay Pushing up harder than the airflow on the bonnet is pushing down?
As always school me as to why im stupid.
Dann
Btw, typing on a ******* iphone so sorry about grammar today
If this wasnt here how would the engine bay be a high pressure area? Its sealed off by the radiator duct.
Leatherface you agree with sav, i still dont undertant how the engine bay could be high pressure wheb the only major opening is the trans tunnel which is low pressure due to the air being pulled through due to the wake at the rear of the car. And maybe im an idiot but isnt the lift on the front of the car due to the flat undertray but the curved bonnet? I mean the front of the car is the same shqpe as the front of an airplane wing. Isnt it the total shape of the car not the airflow in the engine bay Pushing up harder than the airflow on the bonnet is pushing down?
As always school me as to why im stupid.
Dann
Btw, typing on a ******* iphone so sorry about grammar today
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05-21-2011, 10:58 AM
#45
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The high pressure area I was worried about glancing at it was behind the radiator due to the high attack angle midway behind the radiator. If there is a high pressure area behind the radiator you will not pull air through. With having the vent to the engine bay there though I wouldn't worry about it. If the car gets hot, increase the vent size.
<- Not an aerodynamicist
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05-21-2011, 11:28 AM
#46
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haha
I saw a post just like this on DSMLink. Almost exact same design too. Everyone told the guy it's a waste of time and it wont work well etc etc etc
The guy finished it and now has completely stable coolant temps and no engine bay temp issues. Car is tracked heavily.
I'm interested in seeing the results. Keep up the good work
I saw a post just like this on DSMLink. Almost exact same design too. Everyone told the guy it's a waste of time and it wont work well etc etc etc
The guy finished it and now has completely stable coolant temps and no engine bay temp issues. Car is tracked heavily.
I'm interested in seeing the results. Keep up the good work
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05-22-2011, 06:41 AM
#47
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I think it is a fantastic idea and Im always behind people doing uncommon things, but I still say the radiator needs to be tilted for best flow from it. That BMW is a great example, just look how far forward the radiator is to allow for better angle of the ducting. It is also why you mostly see this done with Mid Engine cars as there is little in the way, Ford GT and Lotus Elise/Exige are good examples.
I know doing such things will be harder with the intercooler in front of the radiator, you may want to look into a v-mount setup. A plus to it would be you wont need a larger radiator since it wont get heat soaked from the intercooler.
I know doing such things will be harder with the intercooler in front of the radiator, you may want to look into a v-mount setup. A plus to it would be you wont need a larger radiator since it wont get heat soaked from the intercooler.
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05-22-2011, 07:45 AM
#48
I think it is a good idea, and I think that it is going to work. Hood vents seem to be key with your ducting choice. You could always try to mount some slimlin fans to the hood below the slits if there is room. This would allow you to pull air in or suck it out of the engine bay.
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05-22-2011, 06:15 PM
#49
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Here's the important stuff from that thread I talked about:
Don't forget the gurney flap on the leading edge.
Prototype test results:
As far as the radiator ducting, it really seemed to do the job! I never saw over 193F coolant temps the whole day except once when it hit 196F while behind another car. For road racing, especially with the ~400bhp the car makes at this boost level, this is incredibly low. Ambient temps were average 50F or so, but I have so much wiggle room on coolant temps that the car will still run plenty cool when racing in the summer.
The track day came up on me really quickly and I really had to rush the ducting project, but I really just wanted to put something together to test the concept. I'm really starting to lean toward doing a fiberglass duct using a high-temp resin.
I changed up the ducting a little bit as you'll notice in the pics. First, I sealed the FMIC to the radiator. All air flowing through the FMIC will flow up and through the radiator. I used aluminum ducting panels and weatherstripping all around to keep it air-tight. Next, I sealed the nose to the FMIC. All air entering the main inlet on the nose will enter the FMIC. I then cut an additional ~2” out of the top of the nose inlet. This area is above the FMIC, and I dedicated it to radiator inlet airflow. I basically created a boxed duct that takes the air entering this area and ducts it directly up to the top half of the radiator (the bottom half is sealed to the FMIC). Finally, I built the radiator exit duct out of sheet steel for rigidity and ducted this out through the hood. Quite honestly, I did a pretty poor job on the radiator exit duct since I only had limited tools at home and ended up having to cut the sheet steel with tin snips.. not fun. Once again though, I just wanted to prove the concept works. I then sealed this duct against the hood and added a small gurney to the front of the exit duct to help pull air out of the duct.
In the video below, I put together some clips from the day with my friend's GoPro HD mounted on the hood of my car. I overlayed data from ECMLink V3 onto the video. For this session, you were only allowed to pass on the front and back straightaways, and only when pointed-by (and of course, only under green, but the guy in the silver Evo must have missed that memo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8HbM4gJUVA&hd=1
As far as the radiator ducting, it really seemed to do the job! I never saw over 193F coolant temps the whole day except once when it hit 196F while behind another car. For road racing, especially with the ~400bhp the car makes at this boost level, this is incredibly low. Ambient temps were average 50F or so, but I have so much wiggle room on coolant temps that the car will still run plenty cool when racing in the summer.
The track day came up on me really quickly and I really had to rush the ducting project, but I really just wanted to put something together to test the concept. I'm really starting to lean toward doing a fiberglass duct using a high-temp resin.
I changed up the ducting a little bit as you'll notice in the pics. First, I sealed the FMIC to the radiator. All air flowing through the FMIC will flow up and through the radiator. I used aluminum ducting panels and weatherstripping all around to keep it air-tight. Next, I sealed the nose to the FMIC. All air entering the main inlet on the nose will enter the FMIC. I then cut an additional ~2” out of the top of the nose inlet. This area is above the FMIC, and I dedicated it to radiator inlet airflow. I basically created a boxed duct that takes the air entering this area and ducts it directly up to the top half of the radiator (the bottom half is sealed to the FMIC). Finally, I built the radiator exit duct out of sheet steel for rigidity and ducted this out through the hood. Quite honestly, I did a pretty poor job on the radiator exit duct since I only had limited tools at home and ended up having to cut the sheet steel with tin snips.. not fun. Once again though, I just wanted to prove the concept works. I then sealed this duct against the hood and added a small gurney to the front of the exit duct to help pull air out of the duct.
In the video below, I put together some clips from the day with my friend's GoPro HD mounted on the hood of my car. I overlayed data from ECMLink V3 onto the video. For this session, you were only allowed to pass on the front and back straightaways, and only when pointed-by (and of course, only under green, but the guy in the silver Evo must have missed that memo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8HbM4gJUVA&hd=1
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05-23-2011, 01:05 AM
#51
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haha
I saw a post just like this on DSMLink. Almost exact same design too. Everyone told the guy it's a waste of time and it wont work well etc etc etc
The guy finished it and now has completely stable coolant temps and no engine bay temp issues. Car is tracked heavily.
I'm interested in seeing the results. Keep up the good work
I saw a post just like this on DSMLink. Almost exact same design too. Everyone told the guy it's a waste of time and it wont work well etc etc etc
The guy finished it and now has completely stable coolant temps and no engine bay temp issues. Car is tracked heavily.
I'm interested in seeing the results. Keep up the good work
Along with a bunch of other things I'm redesigning on my GSX, I'll be having a much nicer duct made soon, and partially incorporate it with a custom hood design to make the overall piece much cleaner and more durable.
Here's the original thread I started on DSMTuners. I also started one on the DSMLink boards but that's a private forum.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cust...ad-racing.html
Beau
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05-23-2011, 02:11 AM
#55
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Wheres the faith curly?
And dont say 'Oh I have faith in you, but I said a ten second car not a ten minute car.....'
Lol.
Ill post more pics of the other bits soon. Ill post some good shots of what was needed to do the front venting.
And then Ill invite everyone to comment again, not like MT need an invitation to talk **** haha.
Dann
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05-23-2011, 09:42 PM
#58
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OP here,
This first pic is how Ive sealed the front up so that and air entering the mouth cannot leave out the bonnet latch area.
As you can see it bolts to where the bumper bolts to on the bottom where those 2 bolts are, and uses 2 more factory bolts up the top on the radiator support panel. also the stainless plate on top of that seals the rest up. Its all silicon'd in. Its hard to see but it has some side plates as well to stop air exiting the ends.
This the just the mouth Ive created, the side plates are aluminium and the lower plate is coreflute (for sale sign ****)
This is a side view of the lower side plates. It is almost the exact shape of the bumper so when the bumper is on it lines up with it and seal the front off.
Right hand side.
Left hand side
\
For those confused at the last 2 pics, both photos were taken from the wheel well, Ie take the wheel off and aim forwards towards the radiator.
Note- Both the side plates in the last 2 photos are of the same design, due to the car being a little different on both sides you can see Ive bashed the ends around to snug up with the radiator.
Dann
This first pic is how Ive sealed the front up so that and air entering the mouth cannot leave out the bonnet latch area.
As you can see it bolts to where the bumper bolts to on the bottom where those 2 bolts are, and uses 2 more factory bolts up the top on the radiator support panel. also the stainless plate on top of that seals the rest up. Its all silicon'd in. Its hard to see but it has some side plates as well to stop air exiting the ends.
This the just the mouth Ive created, the side plates are aluminium and the lower plate is coreflute (for sale sign ****)
This is a side view of the lower side plates. It is almost the exact shape of the bumper so when the bumper is on it lines up with it and seal the front off.
Right hand side.
Left hand side
\
For those confused at the last 2 pics, both photos were taken from the wheel well, Ie take the wheel off and aim forwards towards the radiator.
Note- Both the side plates in the last 2 photos are of the same design, due to the car being a little different on both sides you can see Ive bashed the ends around to snug up with the radiator.
Dann
Last edited by nitrodann; 05-23-2011 at 09:48 PM. Reason: Pressed edit button to steal imageshack links for another post.
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