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Old 12-05-2011, 11:09 PM   #141
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I did the logistics. basically for 2 cars:

40 tires (including practice tires)
400 gallons of fuel for race, $5/gallon for 91 (you have to buy at the track, rule say)
100 gallons of fuel for 2 days of practice, $5/gallon for 91
400 gallons to get 1 RV, 2 tow trucks to T25
6 sets of brake pads (including practice)
6 spare hubs (including practice)
registration fees
practice day fee (this was ridiculous. close to $2k for 2 days for 2 cars)
food for 20 crews - 20 meals x 3 times a day x 5 days = 300 meals
hotel, RV for 5 nights for 20

you think this is a lot. but talking to one of Porsche team. it was over $150k to show up with a Cup car. not winning, just showing up.

Last edited by bellwilliam; 12-06-2011 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:21 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
I did the logistics. basically:

40 tires (including practice tires)
400 gallons of fuel for race, $5/gallon for 91
100 gallons of fuel for 2 days of practice, $5/gallon for 91
400 gallons to get 1 RV, 2 tow trucks to T25
6 sets of brake pads (including practice)
6 spare hubs (including practice)
registration fees
practice day fee (this was ridiculous. close to $2k for 2 days for 2 cars)
food for 20 crews - 20 meals x 3 times a day x 5 days = 300 meals

you think this is a lot. but talking to one of Porsche team. it was over $150k to show up with a Cup car.
Damn. I thought getting everything together for Lemons was expensive. That is some serious green and must have taken a rather larger trailer to get the cars and all those tires/tools there. Multiple trailers are possible, but makes it less dramatic.

I am trying to picture everything in one area that was used up by you guys in the course of getting to this race and at the race. 40 Tires and 18 drums of fuel. Wow.

What is the entry fee?
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:22 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
Hustler: We had different types of hubs. Emilio swears by Amsoil. I love Redline. I used junkyard hubs and rebuilt them. I believe I only had one hub failure, but that was my mistake for using a really old hub.
I buy the cheap ones with heat-treatment marks, pack them with Amsoil and I've been on the same set for one year which is a dramatic change over OEM and cheap grease. What does the other hub look like? I found that Redline broke down after one day, AMSoil still has a healthy color and maintains viscosity to this day. I'm going to repack them annually from now on.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:29 AM   #144
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I buy the cheap ones with heat-treatment marks, pack them with Amsoil and I've been on the same set for one year which is a dramatic change over OEM and cheap grease. What does the other hub look like? I found that Redline broke down after one day, AMSoil still has a healthy color and maintains viscosity to this day. I'm going to repack them annually from now on.
I really am the wrong person to ask. Our head mechanic was Savington, he would know a lot more. I probably will try Amsoil next time then.

I also only use junkyard hub, don't like any of reman hubs. 2nd Chance Roaster owner Alex is a buddy, he get me all the used parts. heck, 1/2 of the parts came from him. the 5 speed in Enzo was in his daily just 1 month prior...
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:59 AM   #145
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Keep in mind that these cars covered around 1900 miles each at racing speeds. That doesn't include practice. The abuse they took was substantial, even with our drivers playing it cool to take care of the cars. Losing three hubs over 3800 track miles doesn't seem too bad if you look at it that way. it certainly was the most consistent weak point in the cars though.

That was me looking at the seam welding on Enzo. If it could be seam welded, it was seam welded!

Last edited by [email protected]; 12-06-2011 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:02 AM   #146
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What brand of bearings were you guys running witch which lube?
Well we started with some really nice in house built hubs, I will leave the details to Emilio if he cares to share, but one failed due to user error, again I'll defer to Emilio. We then swapped both fronts just in case the other side had the same issue. IDK if the backup hubs were built to the same spec or not. Also for the front hubs I believe there was an issue where the built hubs had bearings that were potentially a bazillionth of an inch smaller than OE which may have played a role if the backups were built the same.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:45 AM   #147
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What's with the radiator opening cover? Was it really so cold at one point that the entire radiator needed covering? Or was that some shipping technique?
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:51 AM   #148
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The mesh in the radiator opening was to protect the radiator.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:41 AM   #149
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Congrats to all! Very impressive.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:09 AM   #150
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It's amazing to see how much you need on the logistics side to make this happen.
It's not just amazing - it's staggering. The fuel costs, food, lodging, and race entry fees were just the icing on the cake - we had dozens of radios, earpieces, fleece jackets and beanies and long sleeve t-shirts for the entire crew, at least 1.5 cars worth of spare parts (and we STILL nearly ran out of hubs), and a 12-man crew that was worked 100% to capacity the entire weekend.

The most staggering thing is that despite the fact that we were the highest placing E3/E2/E1/E0 car and the highest placing sub-2liter car at the event (in our first ever attempt), much of the internal discussion has been about how we should have had more of everything - more tires, more crew members (at least 50% more crew members), and more spares.

The credit for the logistics goes entirely to Emilio and William - I cannot fathom how much time (and money) was spent on putting together the resources required to allow the team to earn this result.

Last edited by Savington; 12-06-2011 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:26 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
400 gallons of fuel for race, $5/gallon for 91 (you have to buy at the track, rule say)
100 gallons of fuel for 2 days of practice, $5/gallon for 91
At some point we'll put together a "by the numbers" sheet for the event, but I want to give specific thanks to our two fuelers, Mani (Neocataboi) and Murat (newold_m). The original plan was for them to split the fueling duties so they could get some sleep during the race, but they quickly realized that it was faster if each of them were holding a fuel jug and fueling the car at every single pit stop - which meant that both of them would be awake for the entire 25 hour event. This wasn't a decision made by me, or Oscar, or Emilio, or any of the other leaders - this was a decision purely made by the fuelers themselves, after realizing that it was simply faster for them to both fuel each car.

The rules stipulate that you can only have 5 5-gallon containers in the pit space at any given time, so all of the extra fuel was stored outside our pit space in the back of a truck (which was driven back and forth to the pumps during the race to replenish the twin 55-gallon drums in the truck). Because only 25 gallons was allowed in the pits, and each car took 10 gallons per stop, the fuelers had to constantly fill the jugs, then carry them to the pits during the race so there was always enough fuel for an emergency pit stop.

Each car consumed approximately 200 gallons of fuel during the course of the race. Fuel weighs 6 pounds per gallon. 2 cars x 200 gallons x 6lbs/gal means that our fuelers physically moved 2400lbs of fuel over the course of the race.

The entire crew realized the task that they had performed and recognized them, but I want to do it publicly - those two guys performed an absolutely herculean task with absolutely no mistakes, no spills, no complaints, and no slip-ups, for 25 hours straight.

Mani and Murat, you guys are absolutely incredible, and without you this win would not have been possible. Thank you, thank you, thank you for the job you performed.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:35 AM   #152
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We had two actual hub failures during the weekend, and we changed 4 hubs in total.

In order:
-RF on Crusher 30 minutes before qualifying due to major failure (preparation error)
-LF on Crusher 30 minutes before qualifying - precautionary (same prep error as RF)
-LF on Enzo at hour 15 - 3 of 4 studs sheared, causing the wheel to come loose and damage the brake rotor badly
-RF on Crusher at hour 19 due to major failure (no prep error, just pure mechanical failure)

We are damn good at hub swaps, folks - I can do one with smoking hot brakes in 4 minutes, jack up to jack down.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:48 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
At some point we'll put together a "by the numbers" sheet for the event, but I want to give specific thanks to our two fuelers, Mani (Neocataboi) and Murat (newold_m). The original plan was for them to split the fueling duties so they could get some sleep during the race, but they quickly realized that it was faster if each of them were holding a fuel jug and fueling the car at every single pit stop - which meant that both of them would be awake for the entire 25 hour event. This wasn't a decision made by me, or Oscar, or Emilio, or any of the other leaders - this was a decision purely made by the fuelers themselves, after realizing that it was simply faster for them to both fuel each car.

The rules stipulate that you can only have 5 5-gallon containers in the pit space at any given time, so all of the extra fuel was stored outside our pit space in the back of a truck (which was driven back and forth to the pumps during the race to replenish the twin 55-gallon drums in the truck). Because only 25 gallons was allowed in the pits, and each car took 10 gallons per stop, the fuelers had to constantly fill the jugs, then carry them to the pits during the race so there was always enough fuel for an emergency pit stop.

Each car consumed approximately 200 gallons of fuel during the course of the race. Fuel weighs 6 pounds per gallon. 2 cars x 200 gallons x 6lbs/gal means that our fuelers physically moved 2400lbs of fuel over the course of the race.

The entire crew realized the task that they had performed and recognized them, but I want to do it publicly - those two guys performed an absolutely herculean task with absolutely no mistakes, no spills, no complaints, and no slip-ups, for 25 hours straight.

Mani and Murat, you guys are absolutely incredible, and without you this win would not have been possible. Thank you, thank you, thank you for the job you performed.
+1

I never quote entire posts this long but in this case, I have to as it deserves to be re-spoken. Manny and Murat were heroes and I believe, embody the spirit of the team. They worked harder, endured more hardship, risked more injury.. and slept less than anyone on the team during our 5 days at the Thunderhill facility.

Everyone on the team was completely pumped going in and well, expected to win. We were are willing to do whatever it took. The risk of even the smallest fuel spill in NASA enduros is a flat 5 minute time penalty. They knew, like everyone else that a single spill and our race could be over. Yeah, no pressure! These two guys, practiced and drilled of fuel stops over and over and over again. In the race, they stone cold nailed it.

I have been particularly impressed by how these two guys developed during the year training with us. From eager car geeks like the rest of us, learning whatever we could teach them about fueling then taking it a step further and learning new tricks we had never thought of. They now tell us how it's done. They're both machines. That level of dedication to this difficult, strategically critical and potentially dangerous task is humbling.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:16 AM   #154
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next year turbo miata with 1-off custom made hubs, yes?
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:28 AM   #155
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next year turbo miata with 1-off custom made hubs, yes?
That has been discussed, among other options.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:54 AM   #156
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I did some quick math on the consumables. It's over $5k per car just for fuel, tires, brakes and hubs for practice and the race. That doesn't count any fuel to get the cars there, any of the hardware investment or any accommodations for the crew.

The GT3 Cup car was turning laps consistently at or below 1:50. What are the fastest Miata times in a sprint race? I don't don't know if we can take on that kind of money. I do, however, like the idea of entering another car or two in E0 through E3 and winning every class. The west coast miata guys are truly amazing. You proved it this year and winning multiple classes next year would emphasize it even more!
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:00 AM   #157
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If we go back next year, we'll be aiming for a class win and 3rd overall in a sub 2.0L N/A car. We have a few weeks to decide on a platform and start working for 2012.
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:09 AM   #158
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IF we go back? If it's a matter of money, I promise to buy a **** ton of stuff from you this winter and I'll plan a week of vacation for next December to come help in the pits. My skills would be filling cups of coffee and hot chocolate for the people with other skills...
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:16 AM   #159
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Congratulations guys, awesome result and a fantastic thread on the build and eventual result. If you ever need a Kiwi on the team, let me know, I am there!!!

This question may come across as crass I guess, BUT from a little wee country that traditionally provides less than the cost of entry for a win in even some pretty high quality races, I wonder what the prize money was for wins and places etc. What is involved with the event in terms of publicity, recognition and so on or is this a down the scale, you do it solely for the enjoyment type deal...(which is everything but the .01% tier 1 events we have in New Zealand)...

I guess what I am saying is not knowing the scene over there it is hard to put in to context what the results mean for you in a wider context....

Oh, speaking of context, some photos of the competitors, the track, pits etc would be awesome to see as well (if anyone had time to take them !!)
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:02 AM   #160
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I would love to get behind the wheel of a car at an enduro. A few guys here in Vancouver run in the Chump Car races periodically, and I may try to wet my feet a bit getting in on one of those.

What licensing is needed to run in this NASA one? Would my Canadian CACC (ASN FIA) license qualify? Does anyone know?
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