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Teves Mk60 ABS install

 
Old 10-22-2018, 07:48 PM
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Default Teves Mk60 ABS install

Has anybody tried to install the Teves MK60 standalone ABS system from a BMW E46 into an NA/NB Miata? If so, what did you do for wheel sensors?

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Old 10-23-2018, 09:26 PM
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This is the thread I used to learn about the swap.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...tandalone-info

This has all you info about the swap and the parts needed.

TL;DR: E46 M3 Blue connector sensors, Post #9 of the thread above.
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Old 10-23-2018, 10:01 PM
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Have you done the swap?

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Old 10-23-2018, 10:04 PM
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Since it's not legal for ST4/5 I put all the parts on the self until it is, if ever.
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Old 10-23-2018, 10:06 PM
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How about the reluctor rings? Can we use the Miata rings with these sensors?
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Old 10-23-2018, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by AA-Ron View Post
Since it's not legal for ST4/5 I put all the parts on the self until it is, if ever.
Teves MK60 is legal for ST4.
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Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 10-24-2018, 12:43 AM
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You can use pretty much any active wheel speed sensor. I ended up using a 996 porsche sensor in the rear and a bosch motorsport front from the bin on the NC.

I need to get a set of front and rear uprights from the NA/NB, I would like to get a kit going for the older cars if anyone would be interested.
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Old 10-24-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by charliehayes22 View Post
You can use pretty much any active wheel speed sensor. I ended up using a 996 porsche sensor in the rear and a bosch motorsport front from the bin on the NC.

I need to get a set of front and rear uprights from the NA/NB, I would like to get a kit going for the older cars if anyone would be interested.
I’m sure there would be interest in a kit for NA/NB, myself included.
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Old 10-24-2018, 12:09 PM
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I looked into it at one point, but decided to go a different way. I'm not a EE, but AIUI there are electronic circuits to adapt the "passive" (reluctor, I think) stock NA/NB ABS sensor signals to the "active" (hall effect?) style of signals that the Teves unit expects. I had planned to go down that path, rather than trying to mechanically fit new sensors to the MIata uprights.

--Ian
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Old 10-24-2018, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by charliehayes22 View Post
You can use pretty much any active wheel speed sensor. I ended up using a 996 porsche sensor in the rear and a bosch motorsport front from the bin on the NC.

I need to get a set of front and rear uprights from the NA/NB, I would like to get a kit going for the older cars if anyone would be interested.
Yeah, I think there would be some interest for several track cars. Having great ABS, like a S2K or E46, on a ST3/4 type miata would absolutely net time. I'm always amazed at how deep S2Ks can brake and also jealous.
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:33 PM
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I've been playing around with the idea of retrofitting NC ABS to my NA - but in my research I discovered that there's a lot more engineering that goes into ABS than just monitoring the wheel speeds and reacting appropriately - mostly in dealing with pump cycle duty, volume split between the four brakes. Basically the pump needs to be sized for the brake volume (lines, bore, etc), which kinda put the kabosh on pursuing it further.
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington
Teves MK60 is legal for ST4.
I didn't noticed the MK60 was added to the revisions. I wish it would come to 5, I still need a turbo for 4
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by charliehayes22
You can use pretty much any active wheel speed sensor. I ended up using a 996 porsche sensor in the rear and a bosch motorsport front from the bin on the NC.

I need to get a set of front and rear uprights from the NA/NB, I would like to get a kit going for the older cars if anyone would be interested.
I would be interested. I have a couple uprights laying around I can send if you are serious.
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Old 10-24-2018, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by charliehayes22 View Post
You can use pretty much any active wheel speed sensor. I ended up using a 996 porsche sensor in the rear and a bosch motorsport front from the bin on the NC.

I need to get a set of front and rear uprights from the NA/NB, I would like to get a kit going for the older cars if anyone would be interested.

Charlie, please check your private messages.
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Old 10-25-2018, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gooflophaze View Post
I've been playing around with the idea of retrofitting NC ABS to my NA
It's a good thing that you didn't try as the stock NC ABS requires the stock ECU to even operate.
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The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
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For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
It's a good thing that you didn't try as the stock NC ABS requires the stock ECU to even operate.
You're assuming I don't know CANBus.
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Old 10-25-2018, 06:24 PM
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Maybe you do. I've lost count of how many "experts" I've seen lately in forums, all of them copying and pasting arduino code from whatever source they can find (see: Dunning-Kruger Effect). Not saying you are not knowledgeable, but I've been taking everything everyone says online with a huge grain of salt.

You will need to find a working NC, tap into the CAN bus, and find what sequence you need to send to the NC ABS to make it work. It's not that hard but it's not trivial either.
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Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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Old 10-25-2018, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Maybe you do. I've lost count of how many "experts" I've seen lately in forums, all of them copying and pasting arduino code from whatever source they can find (see: Dunning-Kruger Effect). Not saying you are not knowledgeable, but I've been taking everything everyone says online with a huge grain of salt.

You will need to find a working NC, tap into the CAN bus, and find what sequence you need to send to the NC ABS to make it work. It's not that hard but it's not trivial either.
Fair enough, but trust me when I say that 212 is the ABS module status packet and I discovered it on my own.
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Old 10-25-2018, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gooflophaze View Post
I've been playing around with the idea of retrofitting NC ABS to my NA
All of the NC pro race teams that I've talked to use an RX8 ABS module in their cars that aren't using the factory ECU. 2004 non-DSC RX8 I believe. It works as a full standalone and doesn't need CAN communication to the rest of the car. They all told me that it's tuned really well for track use, but I'd be curious to hear Charlie's thoughts since he went with the Teves system in his NC.
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Old 10-25-2018, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
All of the NC pro race teams that I've talked to use an RX8 ABS module in their cars that aren't using the factory ECU. 2004 non-DSC RX8 I believe. It works as a full standalone and doesn't need CAN communication to the rest of the car. They all told me that it's tuned really well for track use, but I'd be curious to hear Charlie's thoughts since he went with the Teves system in his NC.
That's interesting - the RX8, iirc, is a matsushita(?) module, NC is Bosch (I think it's called 4.1?). Later RX8's switched to the Bosch unit, maybe the NC was used as a testbed for DSC? Been months since I spent a few days researching and I've forgotten some details.

Edit: Had to look it up via ebay - Sumitomo, Bosch 5.7 with ice mode (bad for track with wheel lift).

Last edited by gooflophaze; 10-26-2018 at 10:18 AM.
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