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Old 12-29-2012, 04:29 PM   #1
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Default Upgrade time - Flex to Mono; is it worth while?

Like the title says, I have found a great deal on a new set of Mono Flex's. My TT Flex's have served me well. I was thinking of sending them to Tein for re-valve/upgrade but I wanted to gather some subjective info from those of you have had used both to advise if it's a better option to rebuild or upgrade to the Mono's.

Please don't clutter up the thread with xida this of fatcat that. Unfortunately I can't get these systems for the deal I'm getting the Mono's.

TIA

BTW, Mods feel free to move this to suspension if you feel the need. I placed into race prep because that's the info I'm looking for, not how nice it rides.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:30 PM   #2
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I wouldn't bother--they aren't xidas.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:33 PM   #3
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I wouldn't bother--they aren't xidas.
Wow.....OK, you wouldn't bother with upgrading or re-valve? Why?
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:40 PM   #4
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Wow.....OK, you wouldn't bother with upgrading or re-valve? Why?
Because they are the same price and do everything better.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:22 PM   #5
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Again, I am looking for ANYONE who has experience with both the TT Flex and the Mono Flex; subjective (feel) and real world (lap times or shock valving values) data.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:28 PM   #6
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But bro, its not Xidas...

Last edited by 18psi; 12-29-2012 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:38 PM   #7
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Jmann runs Mono flexes on his track car, try giving him a PM.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:21 PM   #8
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Mobius, did you revalve your TT Flex for the 9/6 rates? What's your impression over the stock 7/6?
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:55 AM   #9
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I did not have them revalved. 9/6 is within the range of the stock valving. I run them close to or at full soft for street use; at my autocross track I run them close to full soft. For dry track I've been about halfway on the adjusters. I've been happy with street ride and track performance.

I can't really give a comparative review since I have no direct experience with other coilovers. Last driving season I wasn't able to get the most out of this suspension due to my hardened RS2's - .6g was the best I could do.
Edit: I went straight from 115k stock suspension to 9/6; never used the 7's.

I went with Flex for several reasons - I was able to source them locally from a shop that had experience both with Tein and with Miatas; the EDFC option was very appealing since I had very little garage time at the time (it's still awesome); and Xidas/Afcos etc were not options at the time.

So I don't know what to recommend. If you have a smoking deal on the Mono's, and don't plan on upgrading to Xidas or comparable level dampers down the road, then go for it. There was a post from someone in WTB for Tein's in the past week, so you should be able to unload your existing dampers pretty quickly.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:25 AM   #10
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Mobius, I've been pretty happy with the TT Flex. I've had them for a 29000 miles and they are still fine but the deal I have for the Mono is tempting. FWIW, I have had to learn to drive with the TT Flex, i.e. quick transitions or turns where the pavement isn't smooth causes a bit of what feels like hop in the rear (BW @ Cotton Corners or T6 @ LS). Its like the damper has a micro void on rebound and the spring releases its energy with minimal control by the damper until it catches up. Sounds weird, I know but that's the only way I can explain it. I've "learned" to drive it this way by quick counter steer inputs usually when the suspension unloads. It's not like oversteer or even snap oversteer but it does require a bit of steering correction to maintain a clean line. Ive gotten so used to it that its second nature. However if I didn't have to make these adjustments mid corner, I should be able to get on power a bit sooner. So if the Monos are a bit quicker in dealing with high speed rebound damping and are the same or better than the TT Flex in low speed and compression damping then it will be worth my while to switch. If not, then I'll send in my TT Flex's and have them freshen and "upgrade" them with a bit more high speed rebound damping leaving the low speed as is. compression damping feels perfect to me.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:45 AM   #11
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If you can get a good deal on Mono's get them. The difference between shocks is very small time wise and unless you are racing for points or money it probably would be more fun to spend the savings on track time.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twothirdsCobra View Post
Again, I am looking for ANYONE who has experience with both the TT Flex and the Mono Flex; subjective (feel) and real world (lap times or shock valving values) data.
I do, and even though it was a very long time ago I remember thinking the Monos weren't worth all the effort I put into selling the twins, install, alignment. I remember putting on the AST damper and going "OMFG how is this possible?!?!?! Does not computer!!!"

There are too many driver variables to talk about lap times.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:04 PM   #13
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But bro, its not Xidas...
Yes, troll people for raving about a grossly superior suspension set-up.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twothirdsCobra View Post
FWIW, I have had to learn to drive with the TT Flex, i.e. quick transitions or turns where the pavement isn't smooth causes a bit of what feels like hop in the rear (BW @ Cotton Corners or T6 @ LS). Its like the damper has a micro void on rebound and the spring releases its energy with minimal control by the damper until it catches up. ...So if the Monos are a bit quicker in dealing with high speed rebound damping ..
What you are describing is not a problem with the high speed damping, but hysteresis. Yes monotubes are better than twin-tubes in this regard, although Flexes have low hysteresis compared to other twin-tubes, if they have some gas pressure.

Hysteresis is where the shock shaft changes direction but the force doesn't... it lags. You can see this in the full hysteresis F-V loop of a shock, as the "fatness" of the trace, about the origin of the plot.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:42 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
What you are describing is not a problem with the high speed damping, but hysteresis. Yes monotubes are better than twin-tubes in this regard, although Flexes have low hysteresis compared to other twin-tubes, if they have some gas pressure.

Hysteresis is where the shock shaft changes direction but the force doesn't... it lags. You can see this in the full hysteresis F-V loop of a shock, as the "fatness" of the trace, about the origin of the plot.
Thanks Jason. My TT Flex's are still in great shape and really don't need to be recharged/revalved but I figured that I might as well upgrade the shock with higher rate springs and have Tein valve them accordingly if I don't wind up with the Mono's.

The guy that was going to pick up my TT Flex's may not have the $$$$ to do it, so I'll likely do the revalve.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:54 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
But bro, its not Xidas...
It's a lot of fun to watch you consistently make a fool of yourself by posting worthless garbage like this, but I would encourage you at some point to take a ride or drive a car that's on Xidas so you can understand why we all rave about them so much.

Your trolling is forgivable because you literally cannot fathom how good they are until you try them.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:48 AM   #17
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I bit the bullet and finally ordered xidas yesterday. Don't want to jack Myron's thread so I will put further updates in my track prep thread.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:44 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
It's a lot of fun to watch you consistently make a fool of yourself by posting worthless garbage like this, but I would encourage you at some point to take a ride or drive a car that's on Xidas so you can understand why we all rave about them so much.

Your trolling is forgivable because you literally cannot fathom how good they are until you try them.
Its a lot of fun to watch both you and hustley get all bent outa shape any time anyone doesn't have an epileptic seizure about how awesome the xidas are.

I openly admit that I haven't tried em, and have said on numerous occasions that I'm more than open to the experience.

You two post "xida or death" in just about every suspension related thread, many completely unrelated, so I returned the favor.


I still <3 u both though
Maybe someday soon I'll swing by SLO and have you show me in person.

Last edited by 18psi; 01-04-2013 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:30 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
It's a lot of fun to watch you consistently make a fool of yourself by posting worthless garbage like this, but I would encourage you at some point to take a ride or drive a car that's on Xidas so you can understand why we all rave about them so much.

Your trolling is forgivable because you literally cannot fathom how good they are until you try them.
Savington is correct. To the OP, can you break down your cost for this conversion so we can make a better recomendation? FYI, the reason everyone says Xida is the simple fact that you are getting the performance of a 3.5k Moton for 2k, plus all the development and guess work is already done. The good thing about Tein is Emilio has done all the testing on those as well. He could actually give you the best feedback as he has run/sold all of the Tein combos.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:15 PM   #20
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I'm sure this has been answered elsewhere, but let's pretend I'm on Tein Flex's right now. Let's also pretend I'm a pretty fast driver and am getting my car close to its performance potential. What sort of gain would I see by moving to Xidas? I don't really care about ride comfort, it's a track car.

For argument's sake, let's say I run 1:59s at TWS on NT01s. Am I running 1:58s with the Xidas? 1:57s? Or is there a better way to benchmark it?

I guess I'm trying to determine what the best way to spend the money is if my ultimate goal is lower lap times.

robert

P.S. Sorry to threadjack.
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