Who is not running helper spings
#22
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A light car will not fully compress springs. When you have a gap at full droop adding a longer spring will only raise the car because a longer spring compresses the same amount. But at full droop you will still have the gap.
#24
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Helpers are needed to take up the spring at full droop. Correct? No matter how long a 700# spring is it will always be unseated at full droop when a Miata is set at a low (4-4.5") rode height.
#25
No, it will not be, lol. Just like in the exocet video posted a few posts up, while the stock spring would come unseated without the helper (even though the helper is only functioning as a SPACER to the perch), a 1.5" longer spring (the length of the crushed helper) would do the exact same thing, and eliminate the need to run the helper at all, because it will never come uncompressed in that setup on the front end, only the rear, which is why I have helpers in the back.
Last edited by Dietcoke; 02-07-2016 at 11:35 PM.
#26
For example, I replaced the left setup with the right spring, because just like in the video, the helper stays completely crushed and serves no purpose other then being a stupid uncentered offset spacer. The front end doesn't have the same travel the rearend does, even if the shocks are physically capable of it, the suspension and swaybar will not allow it.
#27
The helper is not just a spacer, it extends when the weight is removed keeping the main spring in contact then compresses and becomes a spacer when fully loaded. A longer spring has to be adjusted lower just like a helper, only it is not compressed all the way so when the suspension goes into full droop it well not extend enough to keep the slack out if that makes sense.
#28
The helper is not just a spacer, it extends when the weight is removed keeping the main spring in contact then compresses and becomes a spacer when fully loaded. A longer spring has to be adjusted lower just like a helper, only it is not compressed all the way so when the suspension goes into full droop it well not extend enough to keep the slack out if that makes sense.
A helper spring that is under 100% compression at all times and can not be physically extended due to lack of suspension or shock travel vs installed height is a spacer. (and not a good one)
This happens under 2 scenarios.
1: The shock perch is set in such a way that full droop keeps the main spring somewhat compressed without a helper (no void under full droop)
2: The swaybar limits free suspension travel
Both apply to me, so helpers don't make sense. Suspension isn't one size fits all, kids.
#30
I don't think you get it.
A longer main spring will still be unseated at max droop travel, all you stand to gain is the ability to not lower the car past a certain point running a longer spring.
Most miata with lowered geometry have unused droop travel, the helper spring makes up that droop travel when there is no load, like cornering and hard bumps. The helper spring will keep the tire in contact with the road. Happens a lot on my 99ae billies and 7" springs, no helpers. If I'm off the ground, I can kick my tire down a good 2.5", front and rear. No bueno for torsen. I hear it clack around, see the witness marks from springs hitting sleeves. I haven't even been to a track, yet.
You could use the main spring for droop travel, but if you do that then you have to preload the spring, means you can't go low. The only way to make up the droop travel is a spring with softer rate than the main one, hence helpers.
So you don't ever see the helper move on your car or track, don't mean it doesn't happen to the rest of us.
A longer main spring will still be unseated at max droop travel, all you stand to gain is the ability to not lower the car past a certain point running a longer spring.
Most miata with lowered geometry have unused droop travel, the helper spring makes up that droop travel when there is no load, like cornering and hard bumps. The helper spring will keep the tire in contact with the road. Happens a lot on my 99ae billies and 7" springs, no helpers. If I'm off the ground, I can kick my tire down a good 2.5", front and rear. No bueno for torsen. I hear it clack around, see the witness marks from springs hitting sleeves. I haven't even been to a track, yet.
You could use the main spring for droop travel, but if you do that then you have to preload the spring, means you can't go low. The only way to make up the droop travel is a spring with softer rate than the main one, hence helpers.
So you don't ever see the helper move on your car or track, don't mean it doesn't happen to the rest of us.
#31
How many times do I have to explain this before it's understood.
A helper spring that is under 100% compression at all times and can not be physically extended due to lack of suspension or shock travel vs installed height is a spacer. (and not a good one)
This happens under 2 scenarios.
1: The shock perch is set in such a way that full droop keeps the main spring somewhat compressed without a helper (no void under full droop)
2: The swaybar limits free suspension travel
Both apply to me, so helpers don't make sense. Suspension isn't one size fits all, kids.
A helper spring that is under 100% compression at all times and can not be physically extended due to lack of suspension or shock travel vs installed height is a spacer. (and not a good one)
This happens under 2 scenarios.
1: The shock perch is set in such a way that full droop keeps the main spring somewhat compressed without a helper (no void under full droop)
2: The swaybar limits free suspension travel
Both apply to me, so helpers don't make sense. Suspension isn't one size fits all, kids.
MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - Xida CS vs. FCM NAs
With enough stroke, helpers become a benefit. Not enough stroke, helpers not needed. Not complicated.
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#32
Whats the distance from the upper spring perch to the shock body on a front xida at full droop - as in the exocet video (with your xidas) the shocks have the travel, but guess what, the suspension as setup won't allow the helper to do anything but be a spacer, which just brings me back to the whole helpers arent always necessary thing, even with long stroke shocks.
#33
Whats the distance from the upper spring perch to the shock body on a front xida at full droop - as in the exocet video (with your xidas) the shocks have the travel, but guess what, the suspension as setup won't allow the helper to do anything but be a spacer, which just brings me back to the whole helpers arent always necessary thing, even with long stroke shocks.
#34
Like I said, I have helpers in the rear, they just arent needed in the front, as setup.