550/336 on a 1600lb car. You tell me.

You can have them. As I said, the travel is completely covered by the 7" spring.

 

This is 100% true. Relative to shock position, everything sits in a much different place, and the jack points on the frame, being the lowest part of the frame, can't be compared much to the pinch welds on a miata, because the guts hang lower/the floor is proportionally higher. I'd say a 4 inch pinch weld on a miata is similar to a 5-5.5 inch jack point height on an exocet

I don't think the factory swaybar placement is right, either, but I fixed that with a BMW piece.

 

Major Leage Duning - Spring Rate Calculator

When running a 1000#main spring and a 150# tender the combo spring rate is 130# until the tender blocks solid and then the 1000# spring kicks in. So once the suspension is unloaded and the tender is extended until it fully compresses, the springrate is 130#. So in effect, your springrate varies from 130# until it compresses and the main 1000# spring rate kicks in and with a compressed bumpstop tops out at maybe 1500#.

A 7 inch 550# spring would have a variable rate from 550# to approximately 1500# with a compressed bump stop.

Which combo is better? That probably depends on the car setup and tires used.

 

Why do you insist on googling **** and then rehashing it in poorly worded, mostly uninformed paragraphs that are only slightly relevant?

Let's play a game where you only comment when you have extensive, first hand knowledge of the subject.

 

Because some people think they are running a 1000# spring rate all the time when they are in effect running a 130-1500# variable rate spring combo.

Why are you being rude to me? Isn't this a discussion forum? Aren't we to discuss stuff?

Other than getting a potentially lower ride height, I don't see any advantage of the high rate spring/tender combo unless the front swaybar allows enough droop to unload a spring.

 

As usual, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

Explain it to me.


It looks to me that the rear swaybar limits droop to a point that the tenders don't come into play.

Even the video on page 1 of this thread isn't very convincing of the need for tender springs in the front, they barely come into play. BTW, those front tie rod end angles look like they'd cause bumpsteer.

IIRC, the Targa Miata didn't run tender springs.

 

No, you stupid ******* twatwaffle.



Oh, you're just going to disregard video evidence of the helpers helping, with a ******* massive front bar. Right then.

Are they 2.5" helpers, by chance?

 

What length main front spring in that video? Wouldn't a slightly longer main spring accomplish the same thing depending on what ride height you are aiming for?

 

Added to lexicon, thanks!
Fbody, keep saying wrong stuff.
I'm learning in this thread.

 

No, because a helper with a thousand pound spring has a 130# rate for the travel of the entire helper spring. Do you know what weighs much more than 130# per corner?

Now, if there is just a thousand pound spring in each corner, do you know how much it will compress under the load of a two thousand pound car? Not a ******* lot.

Do you know where all droop travel in a suspension comes from? It comes from the collapsed spring rate of a car under only the force of gravity. If you have no more compressed spring to push into droop, you have no droop. If you hit a big enough bump with no droop you are out of control till gravity returns you to the road.

 

Did you not read anything in this thread? Or do you just spout whatever nonsense comes into your head.

 

100% irrefutable fact right here. Amazed with the other nonsense in this thread in what is normally an intelligent forum. If you're one of the posters who disagree with the above please go an spout your ridiculous arguments elsewhere.

Earlysport

 

OK, I guess I was wrong.

 

Exactly what I was saying on #27, Bob just explained it better. I run a low ride height, 4" frt, 43/8" rear. I have 850# frts and 450# rrs and my travel before the springs go loose is 1.5" UP frt and 1.75" in the rr. Around a smooth corner I doubt my iside lifts anywhere near that in the front, the rear may get close to that under turn in while braking, but I doubt that it also goes loose. If I ran on rough tracks with some rough bumps I would add helpers, but since I don't I don't think they are needed. All I'm trying to say even with 850# spring and 2220# of weight there is a fair amount of compression.

 

That shows helpers helping. It also shows what appears to be a LOT of lateral (in-out) movement of the lower arm, based on the position of the lower bolt on the endlink relative to the seam. Is this for real, or an artefact of something else, camera movement perhaps?

 

Control arms move on an arc, you know? If you compare something on the arm to a vertical body seam I would expect it to get closer to said seam on compression travel.

I think it might be an illusion between that, the flex of the endlink, and the sidewall rolling so hard. If you compare the inside of the arm, back by the rear alignment bolt, it doesn't seem to move as much.

 

Thanks, I understand the arc thing, seemed to be more than I expected though.

I would not expect any/much movement at the rear of the arm, the front bushing would be taking most of the cornering forces, and if there is lateral movement (beyond movement along the arc) that is where I would expect it to be. I think you are right though, unless there are some really shot bushes in there, it is movement along the arc.

 

60mm

 

I dissagree with helpers not being better even on smooth tracks. The reason I went so high 1000 lbs in the front was I would use all the bump travel available on a flat parking lot while auto crossing just due to the lateral grip levels. With rates that high you don't have **** for rebound travel. even with helper springs my springs come loose. I need like 1" longer helpers I think.