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If the keyway is wallered out there's a Loctite fix out there that might help, lots of people installing the keys incorrectly and causing issues.
I need to order a new bolt and key for my 6D. Either the timing wheel is slightly bent or something isn't line up correctly. After seeing the shitshow of bathtub silicone someone used to install the water pump, and seeing a Goodyear timing belt on the motor, I'm not sure I trust the POs work. OE bolt and key are cheap insurance for me at this point. Good luck with yours :/
Look for evidence of outlet porting while you are in there.
I'll take pictures. Not sure what the signs would be of that.
Originally Posted by EO2K
I need to order a new bolt and key for my 6D. Either the timing wheel is slightly bent or something isn't line up correctly. After seeing the shitshow of bathtub silicone someone used to install the water pump, and seeing a Goodyear timing belt on the motor, I'm not sure I trust the POs work. OE bolt and key are cheap insurance for me at this point. Good luck with yours :/
I have a new droman crank pulley installed already. I had the same wobble with the crank pulley I pulled off the car. Definitely ordering a Mazda oem crank bolt, belt, boss, woodruff key and am going to look into the "loctite fix" for the slightly worn keyway.
I have gone through the same pain with my old M45 setup. My crank key cracked at the end at full chat on track during a gear change, undid the crank bolt, pulled belts off and the pulley totally mullered the end of the crank.
Damage was worse than yours, I had to replace the crank. You've been supercharged for a while with a dual tb setup right? M45 before this MP62?
The key I broke was on an engine I know had a good keyway previously, properly torqued and installed etc. With the dual tbs I never truly got rid of the belt chirp on high rpm shifting, caused by the upstream tb stalling the supercharger. I can imagine this high rpm stalling placing a huge amount of stress on the crank pulley. I did not have a BOV though, just a bypass and lots of fiddling with different relative throttle angles between the two tbs. I figured that over time (about 3years of trackdays) the very end of the keyway, the only bit that provides the drive and support for the pulley, got beaten up by the stress of the high rpm gear changes until it finally had enough. It was only the end of the keyway that was pushed out of straight, just like yours. Damage was too bad to even attempt a loctite fix on mine. I know this fix seems successful on non supercharged cars, not sure if the extra stress of a supercharger will effect the success rate - I can't see it helping.
My fix (after replacing the crank) was to go to an ATI damper. The pulley section is one piece with the cambelt pulley, so it is supported by the entire length of the nose of the crank, not just the end 5mm or so like the stock setup. Went on to do a few trackdays on the same M45 setup, no damage to the keyway. Then I went on to the new coldside setup, no issues but the nature of this setup means no dual tbs anymore either. I know its money, but it might be a better and less expensive route than having the issue again, really spoiling the crank then having to replace that.
ATI outer pulley diameter is about 140mm, 4 rib. I ran my current setup up to 10psi, 250whp on a 4rib without a problem (it surprised me).
I have gone through the same pain with my old M45 setup. My crank key cracked at the end at full chat on track during a gear change, undid the crank bolt, pulled belts off and the pulley totally mullered the end of the crank.
Damage was worse than yours, I had to replace the crank. You've been supercharged for a while with a dual tb setup right? M45 before this MP62?
The key I broke was on an engine I know had a good keyway previously, properly torqued and installed etc. With the dual tbs I never truly got rid of the belt chirp on high rpm shifting, caused by the upstream tb stalling the supercharger. I can imagine this high rpm stalling placing a huge amount of stress on the crank pulley. I did not have a BOV though, just a bypass and lots of fiddling with different relative throttle angles between the two tbs. I figured that over time (about 3years of trackdays) the very end of the keyway, the only bit that provides the drive and support for the pulley, got beaten up by the stress of the high rpm gear changes until it finally had enough. It was only the end of the keyway that was pushed out of straight, just like yours. Damage was too bad to even attempt a loctite fix on mine. I know this fix seems successful on non supercharged cars, not sure if the extra stress of a supercharger will effect the success rate - I can't see it helping.
My fix (after replacing the crank) was to go to an ATI damper. The pulley section is one piece with the cambelt pulley, so it is supported by the entire length of the nose of the crank, not just the end 5mm or so like the stock setup. Went on to do a few trackdays on the same M45 setup, no damage to the keyway. Then I went on to the new coldside setup, no issues but the nature of this setup means no dual tbs anymore either. I know its money, but it might be a better and less expensive route than having the issue again, really spoiling the crank then having to replace that.
ATI outer pulley diameter is about 140mm, 4 rib. I ran my current setup up to 10psi, 250whp on a 4rib without a problem (it surprised me).
Yes this car has been supercharged with dual throttle bodies for a while, since before I got it.
I've never noticed this "chirping" with my setup, maybe my BOV prevents this.
I'm gonna do the Loctite fix as I'm not completely sure if the ATI or Fluid Damper would be compatible with my 6 rip pulley. I'd hate to have to go through getting more belts and running into all the possible issues changing out my balancer pulley could introduce. If I still have the wobble I may look into that.
6-Rib additive pullies are available for the ATI damper in 130 and 150mm sizes, so unless you attenuate with yet another set of pullies on the SC, you're "go big or go home". You'd have to special order them from FFS. ATI used to make a 140mm specially for FM, but I think they've been discontinued for a while. Nothing available for Fluidamper.
Also, if your SC is ported, you'd likely have noticed when you swapped your SC outlet manifold. No matter how "professional", it will always look like a human went in and ported the triangular outlet above the rotors. Do an image search and you'll see, it looks very DIY. I don't think any supercharger servicers are using an automated system to port a supercharger.
Well boys I (and all of you lol) found my missing torque.
When I initially checked my bypass valve I did it at an angle and only saw the bottom half of the plate sealing but I completely missed the top.
Easy fix right? Nope. The stopper screw is threaded in the bottom and has a round "nut" on the top. Who the fu#k designed this?! I tried getting some small locking pliers on these two but I feel I was doing more harm than good. Idk what to do about this situation. I'll try reaching out to Tom.
The next thought that comes to mind is loosening the throttle plate to see if it will seat itself better. Unfortunately the screws already look like they're on the verge of rounding out and from the top are crushed on the ends so I'm not sure how much they'd want to be unthreaded. To really get a good angle with a screw driver on them it would require me to take off the back housing (the peice of the blower frame the tb mounts to) and I'm not comfortable doing that as it's has a ton of gasket maker on it and even possibly a gasket. Cleaning these surfaces to get them mated together again could put the blower itself out of commission until I send it out.
Look for evidence of outlet porting while you are in there.
Everything looks pretty uniform and not like a angle grinder or other tool was used to remove material. Although the last picture shows where the black coating was machined off in that one area.
Are you worried about taking the nose or the rear bypass block off the center housing? AFAIK there are no gaskets in the M45 or MP62 blower bodies, it should be metal on metal with just a whiff of something like Loctite 510 in between. Alignment is done with a set of guide pins so getting it back together shouldn't be an impossible task.
If it's all gummed up with RTV then someone already done something stupid. Someone did that with the nose on my M45 and it was leaking, so I got to learn a lot. Getting RTV out of the guide pin bores and blind threaded holes was a nightmare.
Easy fix right? Nope. The stopper screw is threaded in the bottom and has a round "nut" on the top. Who the fu#k designed this?! I tried getting some small locking pliers on these two but I feel I was doing more harm than good. Idk what to do about this situation.
Did you try an Allen key to adjust the screw from the bottom? 3/32" brada.
Did you try an Allen key to adjust the screw from the bottom? 3/32" brada.
I jumped the gun a little yesterday when I first started looking at it. There is a super small allen head way up in that set screw. I was using metric allen keys and it was SAE. I was able to adjust the bypass but the set screw assembly was still loose and not as it should be.
I had a replacement BPV (pictured above) but never installed it because the allen bolts holding it on were seized to the point of almost bending the allen key when I tried to remove them even after using WD40. Last night I used PB Blaster and they came off, good ****. I installed this new replacement from TDR and after messing with the mounting adjustment and the set screw I got it to this position pictured below. This replacement has a brass reducer (?) for the vacuum line fitting so it doesn't snap shut like the one I took off, just an observation.
Where it was at originally pictured below.
Yesterday I buttoned everything back up with a new timing gear, key, 660 fix, key, boss, belt and a new water pump.
Today I'll have everything back together and if all goes well I should be able to take some data logs and to see if the new bypass valve and adjustment will allow the system to build more boost especially in the lower rpm's. I have to say I was a little excited when I found the BPV stopper wasn't set correctly as the solution to my low rpm boost problem but atm I dont think it will make a big change. I guess I'm about to find out. I'll really just be happy if I don't have the crank wobble issue. If I start it up and the wobble is still there Ill have to look into buying an ATI damper and yet another crank pulley for the SC that will work with that damper. I've heard those ATI dampers are a pain in the *** to install.
I pulled the plugs yesterday (pictured below.) #4 Is the at the top and #1 is at the bottom. I've never had a change in plug color across all 4 like this. I'm running NGK 4291- ZFR6F plugs, the same 1 step colder plug Flyin Miata sells for FI cars and 93 pump currently. They're gapped to approx .037 in.
Well the hits keep coming. I got everything back together today and took it out, everything was good and the crank wobble was gone. So I took it out this evening to get a log and after it warmed up I got on the high way and did a little pull starting half way through third into a little bit of 4th. After I let out there was an exit and as I was pulling off the car started running a little rough and then once I came to a stop at the light I had a decent size cloud of smoke roll by from the back of my car and then it was really running rough.
Once I coasted into a gas station I tried to start it and it would crank but wouldn't fire. About 10mi later I got it to fire and it idled sounding weak. I pulled the throttle wheel to blip it and I saw smoke come from the hotside of the engine bay. Not 100% but I think it came from the air filter. I shut it down and got towed. I should have taken those plugs as a sign earlier that something was wrong.
So I've used this guy 3 times now and it's to the point where I don't have to explain anything about how to use boards to get the car onto the bed without scraping or where to hook up at. I even do the side straps myself and we get this thing on there in like 5min. Probably not something to brag about but it's all I got atm.
I have to say troubleshooting major engine troubles is something I'm not familiar with. Although pretty much everything I've done so far have been things I've never done before and I've gained a lot of knowledge. If anyone has suggestions on tests and things I should be doing to figure what's happened they are much appreciated.
Compression and leak-down test? Maybe? You'll need a compressor, but the tools are usually available to rent from most larger chain auto parts stores. That'll at least give you an idea of the condition of the motor.
If you just did the timing belt is it possible that it slipped? How did you set the tension on the belt? Damn dude, the hits just keep coming. Sorry man 😔
09-19-2021, 07:29 PM
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