California sucks ass
 

I've just about got my turbo build finalized, but then I started to see "NOT CARB LEGAL" on almost every thread about any turbo kits. But I know 18psi is in California as well, does he beat around the bush with this or is there a way I can make it work?

Or, what I think I may do is go for a stupidcharger, apparently they ARE CARB LEGAL. I'd be able to reach my 180hp power goals and I love the robotic whine of them.. What do I do?!

Is this news to you? Are you like 19? :squint:

His is not CARB legal. Its obviously not intended to be driven on public roads inside the state.

Problems: you haz them.

Kill yourself?

There are CARB legal turbo options for your car. No DIY turbo setup will ever be CARB legal. Period. Sell off all your shit and buy a MP62 based Supercharger kit from FFS or call BEGI and order a turbo kit with a CARB cert so you can get your sticker.


You can keep all your stock parts around and revert back to OEM every 2 years, and try not to get busted by the police in the meantime while your VTA BOV is chuffing at everyone. This may be a challenge as 19 year olds generally don't have the life experience to have developed the finely honed sense of discretion required to keep from getting in boost all the time.

Good luck and may doge have mercy on your soul

(I'm generally not this cranky but I had a really bad evening and you poked a stick into one of my sore spots)

buy an RC car; you'll get the sound you love.

Actually, that was quite helpful. Cranky, yes, but helpful. Made me laugh too, as I'm 18, and you seem to know us 18 year olds pretty well.

A miata is basically as close I as I can get to a RC car that I can drive. Basically, that's what I wanted in the beginning a RC car.

(Funny side note, my initials are RC and I love RC cola.)

I bet you only like RC cola BECAUSE your initials are RC.

The closest thing you can get to a CARB legal turbo miata is an FC/FD imo. if you're going to turbo just dont do stupid shit to get you pulled over

RC cola just tickles me in such a better way than Coke and Pepsi. And I feel cool, maybe.

I'm not the one to do stupid shit on public roads. Maybe once I got pulled over, but I didn't get a ticket, so that doesn't count.

I was 18 already, you are still figuring it out :D

But seriously, there is A LOT of stuff that goes into a CARB cert. Its not that "a supercharger is CARB legal" it has to be A SPECIFIC supercharger KIT from a SPECIFIC manufacturer using a SPECIFIC set of parts in a SPECIFIC configuration. Plus you have to have the sticker.

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/eo/D-617.pdf

Above is the link to CARB EO# D-617. This is the CARB EO# that covers the FFS MP62 for 90-05 Miatas. That should give you a better idea of what I'm talking about.

Yes, actually. That helps explain what you're talking about. Did the SC actually put out less emissions on their tests? Or do the numbers get smaller as the emissions go up?

yeah, but only when I'm in the mood for a cougar.

I think you are the cougar.

I think you are the cougar. And use this forum to reach out to the younger, ignorant kids that post about egay turbo kits.

Every two years my car goes back to bone stock for a few days. Its really not as huge a deal as everyone makes it sound, and gives you an opportunity to make sure everything is tip top and working right. A good thorough once over if you will. Win win.

I have literally "been there done that" with the FFS supercharger. Notice how I pulled it off after like 2 days? That should tell you something.

18psi, I might end up having to do something like that. Thanks for the input man

Californians don't throw away their stock parts.

I still own my midpipe with cat intact and crossover pipe and I no longer live in CA nor do I have a miata anymore.

So true. Even the small amount I've done to my miata, I still have every bolt.

Looks like that is going to be the plan. Thanks for all the helps d00ds.

God damn that's so true. You should see all the crap in my garage

Enough parts to build a stock miata?

unfortunately that is less of a joke and more truth.

It wouldn't be stock :party:

The bullshit that the CARB approves is exactly that. Bullshit. The only reason those have CARB approval is because the company went through the long and expensive process of getting it, not because they're any cleaner than a custom turbo kit with a megasquirt. I can make a turbo Miata that will blow cleaner numbers than any stock Miata and CA is still not going to let me drive it around.

And STAR station basically means "We're going to make it even harder for you to pass smog". The only way to be a STAR station is to fail a certain percentage of cars. Which means they are absolutely not fucking around there.

I was wondering what the new STAR bullshit was all about.

Damn. I need to make a buddy in the smogging business or something. Shit's crazy.

I totally agree that CARB is bullshit. If they just set some fair numbers to stay under or something, then some people with the ability to tune that way could and be just as "eco-friendly" as the next guy.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1385216996




I lived in San Diego for eight years. And the days of being able to slip someone a few hundred bucks or having a friend on the inside are pretty much behind us.

That said, CARB isn't the hideous monster that some people interpret it to be. CARB is a bureaucracy, and it has a set of rules. The way to succeed is to learn those rules, learn how to give the appearance of abiding by them, and developing a sense of who best to interpret them.

In my experience, the dreaded test-only shops actually tend to be some of the easiest for an "enthusiast" to pass in, since they tend to be small, independent shops run by like-minded people who take a somewhat relaxed attitude towards the visual inspection. Find a one-bay shop in a crappy part of town with a bunch of motorcycles parked out back run by a man with a grey beard. This was my go-to shop in Vista.

And yes, you're going to have to start with a CARB-approved kit in order to get the sticker and the name "BEGI" cast into the manifold. If you thought you could get around that, well, tough.

But don't get discouraged. We all had to learn this one way or another.

This. It's not legal, but I DDed my ~220whp turboed '94 with a standalone for 3 years/30k miles in CA and never had any issues with LEOs or the referee. Don't be stupid and it won't be a problem.

Yeah, this is probably what I'll be doing. Thanks for all the input.

I actually went to a place near Redlands that passed my '97 Jetta with failed extra air pump BS thing for $120... I didn't know anything about it, they just said it didn't pass (this is true... it would have failed anywhere, they weren't just extorting me), but for $120 they'd give me a sticker. This was about a year ago. They are still around. Join a real ghetto car club and they'll tell you where to go.

I kind of like the idea of taking everything apart and making sure everything is good, buuuuuut $120 to be completely lazy, that sounds grrrreat.

...that being said, the car was stock besides. So it passed the visual, it was just the smog that it failed. Don't know if that would screw you or if you could find someone to pass you on both. Probably could.

There is a shitty little shop just N of the 10 on orange. It's almost more of a hangout than a shop. Those guys might know a few "tricks" to the local area.

Corner of Brockton and Orange.

I bet they do. I think I remember seeing that place. There's also a little shop right next to the scrap yard there, I wonder if they would know. Up in San Bernardino there's a place that does it. Too bad I don't remember the addresses of the places, lol! The place I went was southwest somewhere. I had listed the Jetta for sale and a Mexican guy who wanted to buy it took me to this place to get it smogged. Ah I've never been that ghetto before (or since) in my life. That Jetta was a nightmare. (nothing against Mexicans, yo).

Thanks, this is what I needed. :party: are you still in the area with that impressive miata?

What you SHOULD do.... it TRUBO the FUCK out of that car... Then drive it Balls to the wall in an Eastward Direction, To at least Colorado, or a little further, To an area where there are no emissions testing, and..... Profit...

I think you meant to say win

Profit IS Win... Win on all counts...
lol

I think the time it would take me to drive there, get tested, and drive back, I could have dissembled the turbo-related shit, replaced them with stock, go and get tested, and put all the turbo shit back on.

I am so jealous of the lack of our stringent emission testing though.

here's the y8s tuning secret of driving a turbo miata in california:

1. buy a new one.
2. turbo the fuck out of it immediately.
3. ????
4. Profit for 6 years of smog exemption for new vehicles.

That's what I did. Then I moved to DC.

or:

Buy or rent a property in the zip codes of California that do not require biennial inspections and "garage" the car there.

Anybody live in Nevada or Mexico that'll send me the smog certificates and sticker?

Swap in a F20C
Get it BAR'd
???


Profit.

CARB is just a nice way of California telling you to get a job and just buy a fast car. Seriously consider that most cars that cost more than their aftermarket parts don't seem to have a problem getting upgrades, or their brand new 911 is fast enough already.

Don't worry, I'm sure Cali companies such as Kraftwerks and TrackSpeed have our backs and will be making their FI kits CARB friendly. They want us to support them, then they should support us.









Or not :/

Seriously, this is spot on. My neighbor has a Maserati:
1.) straight piped, on an super aggressive tune
2.) ????
3.) passes emissions

Begi supports us more than anybody I know of.

Yeah, I have read that they have CARB legal kits, but not a don't know of anyone on any of the major miata forums that has this mythical kit in Cali and passes smog with it :/

As far as I know, there zero CARB legal turbo kits for the Miata in production.

Unless someone from Begi or has direct knowledge that these kits are still approved.

Seems like everyone in Cali bitches about no options, but maybe we are just misinformed and Begi does still indeed provide a CARB legal solution.

I believe you have to call and get a sticker from them, according to EO2K.

Cali performance companies have your backs when it comes to making your off-road race car faster.

Alternatively, they cater to the OTHER 98% of the states in the country for road going cars.

Or, otherwise alternatively, they cater to the market demands of 88% of US population first. Then, if they feel really lucky, they invest a significant amount of their time and profits into the PBC (Peoples Bureaucracy of Califuckyourcars), and hope they can afford the bribe required to get a CARB approval for their kits, all the while hoping that in the 7 to 10 years it takes, the market doesn't change such that thier 10-15 year breakeven on the process isn't somehow altered because the 10% of california modders who actually give two shits about CARB compliancy decide to leave the market.

I AM THE 88%!

The BEGi system exists in a sort of funky grey area.

Executive Order D-349 (90-93) was issued to Bell back in 1994, and D-349-1 (94-99) was added in 2000. So these EOs are 19 and 13 years old, respectively.

Over that time, Bell has made numerous changes to the design of the kits. They've changed the fuel and ignition management, and switched turbo vendors in the case of the 1.6 kit. They never re-certified the systems using the new parts, so there is now a discrepancy between what's written on the paperwork vs. what's actually delivered in the kits.

As a result, although Bell does have a pair of valid CARB EO numbers, they are not longer capable of selling you a kit which complies with these EOs 100%. Some people claim that this does not matter.

If you want to read the full text of the EOs (they're not long) you can get them directly from the state of California here:

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/eo/D-349.pdf
http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...eo/D-349-1.pdf




Technically, this is correct.

According to BEGI they CAN sell you all the parts for the CARB legal kit, or at least thats what they told me last year. The language is vague enough for the 94-99 that BEGI can sell you a kit with a BEGI cast manifold, any Garrett turbo, any "ignition timing retard device" (XEDE will do this) a boost referenced FPR and have the extra injectors set up on a pressure switch, then you technically meet the requirements for the CARB EO and they can sell you a kit with a sticker.

There are a whole host of problems trying to get this to work on a CA Emissions 99 Miata, but simple enough for a Federal Emissions 49 State 99.

The smog shop is required to test the car for emissions and test the emissions components for function, but not check the components of the kit, other than the info that's in the EO. Anything beyond the text and you fail. If for some reason you have a Borg Warner, IHI or china eBay turbo in there bolted to your BEGI kit, you fail. But you could in theory have a Genuine Garrett GT2554 all the way up to a GT3071R and still "pass" per the text.

Obviously extra injectors and FPR would just be window dressing, but would be required to be there to meet the EO.

Again, that's just what Stephanie told me over the phone. This was while I was looking to replace my CA Spec 2000 with a Fed Spec 1999 so I could get THE ONE CARB legal NB trubo kit on the market :(

FTFY, both content and formatting ;)

You will have problems if you have an out of state plate and keep driving it in CA for extended periods.

My solution avoids that with real CA plates.

Lol, ^ is seriously underestimating how difficult and expensive the process is and how long it takes.

I was under the impression that there was still no way to get an lsx bar'd due to exhaust manifolds?

It depends on what sacrifices you are willing to make in the footwells.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1385545067

Vortech and now Jackson Racing have EO #s
Innovative Motorsports has theirs pending in the final stages (small shop)

and there are boatloads of turbo kits being made, I didn't even check those.

...all of this for the BRZ/FRS twins :/

So, all kinds of companies are getting EO numbers, just not for our cars. I think that I have learned that if i want to play by Cali rules for aftermarket FI kits, I need a car that isn't 20 years old. Lots of companies could sit there and bitch about it, and then lots of companies just bite the bullet and go through the testing.

Guess its not worth it if our market is too small, but I have no sales data. Though it seems like NA/NB Miata's are getting really popular now because they are 'scene' cars.

BRZ swap anyone ?

I don't think it is necessarily because we are a small market; just look at how many miatas you see on the road versus FRS/BRZ's. Instead, I would think it has much more to do with the simple fact that they would be marketing a kit that costs more than the majority of cars it would be intended to fit. Not too many people are willing to plunk down on that kind of investment ratio, at least not nearly as many as would be for the relative kit cost-to-value ratio of the FRS/BRZ. Let's face it, we're mostly a bunch of cheapskates (or we wouldn't be driving these cars in the first place); hardly the most lucrative demographic to be selling to from a kit vendor's viewpoint. Much like when you go fishing, you always head over to where you think the big ones are hiding.

Ding! We have a winner.

I've heard this from a lot of people in the past, and I've never really understood it myself. Seems that I'd be able to afford a $5,000 turbo kit much more easily after spending $4,000 for a car than $35,000.

Still, I can't deny the fact that this mentality seems to drive a lot of purchasing decisions...

That's because people can afford the $600 a month payment, not that they have $10k of expendable cash in the bank.