TDR Rotrex Update with Dyno Charts!
 

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Very nice. I'm assuming it can make more power with a build motor?

robert

Finally! Now make that oil cooler that fits down low on the passenger side like we talked about last week!

Were AFR's mapped for those runs?

nice torque.

Nice. Glad someone is making progress on a rotrex kit!


I'm slightly skeptical of the dyno charts (mostly the 1.6), just based on what Mobius and a few others have done on more heavily worked over 1.8l engines.

:giggle::hatecat:
I bet the fuel and timing is "SUPER OPTIMIZED" with those power cards
:giggle:

I'm sure it's fine for most... Especially those who will appreciate decent power gains for minimal installation work and fuss.

Seriously. I thought maybe, maybe after half the forum had gone back to N/A builds we might be past throwing shade at every non-turbo setup.

:hustler:

Use your words.

I bet they achieved those numbers using Stoly as an octane booster.

Wow. 310 injectors? When I make 220hp I'm using 75% duty cycle of my 610cc injectors.

Tone down the hatorade, turbo-lovin biggot
:giggle:

Eh. I'd love to give this kit a try. Looks pretty simple to install. I'll use my MegaSquirt, though.

robert

that's just silly talk.

keep in mind there was like $2000 worth of supporting parts...

my simple ass turbo setup, that was simple and easy to install, made more torque after it suffered foreign object damage and the turbine wheel was contacting the housing while spinning.

Nice numbers. I'd love to see this kit with a proper ems.

Why did the original dyno on the 1.6L Sunburst stop at 5500RPM? Is that the factory redline for that car? (I honestly do not know.) If that's the factory redline, what work was performed to allow it to spin to 7250?

read

Noob status:confirmed. :(

Sounds perfect. I bet they will sell a lot of them if the kit is as well sorted as it looks. Sounds like they fixed all the problems I've read about older rotrex kits (compressor too small, oil getting too hot for rotrex, cracked mounting hardware).

Having made my own DIY SC kit (and mine is no where near as nice as theirs), I can tell you it's wayyy harder to get it working well compared to a turbo setup. If this were for sale before I built mine, I probably would have bought it.

That don't sound right for the HP on your setup. I thought people made 300whp with 550s on gasoline?

Yes. These were all stock motors. TDR has a track car with a fully built motor running MegaSquirt. They will be getting it dynoed ASAP.

These examples are using piggy-back fuel and timing controllers.

TDR was as surprised as anybody. These are not inflated but corrected charts.

The idea is simplicity and no fuss. I can't wait to see what the TDR Track Beast dynos at. I'm thinking over 300 RWHP

Let's not go there. :vash:

Hopefully soon! The Fuel and Timing cards are actually pretty good though. Perfect for simplicity and safe reliability.

The Base Line dyno for the stock 1.6L TDR has was from an earlier dyno run and did not match up to their current dyno charts.

I'll post a log when I get back to my computer.

Found one. Attached. 220hp run. Dyno plot is somewhere in my build.

I even found the dynojet run file.

So what all size Rotrex's can fit on your bracket? C15-60, C30-64, C30-74, C30-84, and C30-94?

Are there prices yet?

I really like the position of your Rotrex oil cooler and I talked to William last week about you guys mirroring that on the other side with an engine oil cooler. How is that coming along?

I know we've used a C30-74, C30-84 and C30-94 with our bracket.

Looking at starting around $4700 with inter-cooler, fuel management, catch can, injectors, fuel pump, etc...

This is William! :giggle: I believe Gary made the mirrored engine oil cooler brackets so they should hopefully be out soon as well.

If there's anything Tuning Done Right knows it's timing and fuel.

Looks like a nice kit for the DIY installer who wants reliability and not having to repair their car constantly.

How would a Rotrex and a coldside double charger system work? Might be a sick build if you could keep the engine in one piece. If you can twin turbo, who not a twin supercharger system?

Why not get a bigger supercharger if you want more power? Have you seen any twin charged DIY systems work well? I haven't.

How is a fuel card and 3* retarded timing reliable?

TDR is a trademark of Track Dog Racing. Tuning Done Right is in no way affiliated with TDR or Track Dog Racing.

:giggle:

Yeah, I saw the FPR and timing retard tricks; someone, somewhere will drop a standalone into the setup and find another 15 horses without trying.

what do they do about the lack of tq?

Not bend rods?

Downshift?

how does downshifting make up for the lack of about 50rwtq on all these plots?

Could have fooled me. :hatecat:

It doesn't. Average power from 5K to 7K is lower than a turbo car with the same peak power, no doubt. Turbo car would thus be faster.

Still it's a nice setup, but it's not a positive displacement SC, and it's not a turbo. As mentioned this setup would be very easy on the rods, 250whp with this would last forever since it's not making the torque that bends rods.

I dunno, I'm mostly just trying to rile you up, since you've been even more relentlessly negative than usual.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1445624153

ive actually been restrained...

This is why I went for a Rotrex.

The reality is you NEED a 6 speed to have decent gearing to keep it on boil. I went back to a 5 speed (for shift feel) and I regret it. The Rotrex needs a short ratio box to keep it in the power band.

Many people are willing to trade loss of midrange torque for greater reliability, OEM cold starts, easier install and fully removable with ease.

Megasquirt is great if you love to tinker and will take a lot more time to run as smooth as OEM. Can it be done? Sure can, but you will invest either many $$ in tuning fees or many hours learning the system. Not everyone has the time and patience to become a diy tuner.

Personally I will give up 15-20 HP any day over having to deal with megasquirt again. Been there done that to me and many other people its just not worth the extra hassle.

Many people are willing to assume a lot of stuff and blindly trust some half-ass compromise versus learning and doing things the proper way... and then enthusiastically defend their awful decision to not put in the effort.

I'm sure you sew your own clothes, crafted your own watch, constructed your own home, etc, too, right? Oh? You compromised on those things, did you?

robert

No, I bet he had professionals do it. You know, just like if you took your megasquirted car to someone that knew what they were doing, paid money, and drove the well running car home.

It's a compromise. You give up adjustment range, and better precision and control while in boost, for those "oem starts".

Next person that tells us Mazda spent millions of dollars and countless hours calibrating the OEM ecu needs to go drive a stock MSM.

PS: I actually had throttle response and driveability on my MSM better than OEM. That's gonna blow your mind.

Some people rather spend time driving their car then countless hours in front of a laptop. Will the fuel curve be as nice? No. But you will still double horsepower vs stock and as long as the timing and fuel are within a safe margin then they will be more then happy with the compromise.

Given the rotrex can run with much higher timing and leaner AFR's before knock compared to a turbo a simple timing card though not perfect should be a safe, and simple solution.

What allows you to make such a stupid claim?

Can you link me to the thread/blog where this was tested and proven?
You know you have the option to pay someone that knows what they're doing to tune it right?

The amount of time it takes to fine tune idle, cold start, and power maps to all run as smooth as OEM takes time even with a knowledgeable tuner. Factor in that the standalone costs more then a power card, then you will spend more time on the dyno and road fine tuning it which equates to more $. It's an investment alot of people rather not make.

If the powercard works within the power goals of the consumer it's the easier choice. It's also a much easier option for people that live in areas where obd2 emissions tests exist. Also having the ability to read OBD2 codes is a extra bonus feature you retain with a piggyback.

1) some people drink craft beer and others bud light. it's an investment they're not willing to make
2) paying more money for a better outcome makes sense even to my 2 year old. the only time it's ok to spend more money and still have band aidz are for people in crazy states like CA that need that CARB sticker.

the OBD2 and smog/inspection portion of this argument, as well as ease of install and simplicity are your only legs to stand on. I'll give you those. Oh and the "easier on the engine due to making low torque" part too.

No he's right. Rotrex isn't making as much torque in the midrange where knock is most common, thus it's less likely to knock. That part is true. Whether that is an advantage is up for debate.... But it is true, less power, less chance for knock. Also SC setups have lower backpressure, so less internal EGR at full load, lower temps in the combustion chamber during combustion, so again less chance for knock.

That said if you guys want to have a pissing contest on whether a perfectly tuned standalone is better than piggy backs, yall should go do that somewhere else. I swear I thought this we did that like 10 years ago.

I could understand that based on the dyno chart.

he wasn't talking about making less power. he was talking about taking leaner afr's and more timing before encountering knock.

I'll decide when to post here and when to post elsewhere. Thanks

Way to move the goal posts and make a false equivalency; I was making the classic argument of something working vs something working right, and you decided to try to reframe it. D+, see me after class.

Like I said, people are more than enthusiastic to defend their decision to not put in effort. Thanks for proving my point. :party:

Like quite literally if your argument is "It's hard and I don't understand it", and someone takes the time to show you resources and help you through it, and then you still go "But it's hard and I don't understand it", you're being a stick in the mud. Not to point fingers or turn this into a helldump, but there are a lot of straight up "dumb" people who have figured out how to install and run a Megasquirt. Patching in a Powercard or whatever is literally 90% of the work of going to a standalone; it's like going on a 6 hour road trip and at 5 hours in you declare "man, I don't feel like driving for another hour, I'm going to turn around and drive 5 hours home". No one is stopping you, its your decision, but you're not convincing anyone when you explain why.

Does anyone know if they will produce a semi DIY kit?

SC, bracket and pulley system, oiling and cooling system etc?

I'd like to reuse my megasquirt, injectors, etc. and do my own IC and piping set up to save some pennies.

I'm not going to do your homework for you. It's also the reason why you can run 10:1 compression motors (look on 949's site they recommend 10:1 for a fully built motor for rotrex)

significantly less back pressure, colder intake temps for same volume of air moved, much more progressive power curve. All these equate to a more det resistant setup.

It's not homework it's you pulling stuff out of your butt and calling it a fact

Thats how I got through school