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Old 05-14-2010, 11:43 AM   #21
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Ya, the air-water cooler keeps the throttled volume down, but these days I my opinion its not a cost effective option + the added complication seems unattractive. This is due to the option of adequate ebay A-A's and the growing number of DTB setups which allow better than stock SC throttle response. I personally saw a DTB setup the other day (rather simple implementation) and the throttle response was unbelieveable. I have a stock MP62 (lowest throttle volume) and the DTB setup made me envious.
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:35 PM   #22
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Either way you are adding complication and cost.

The fact remains tho that the MP62 only puts out a fixed volume per rotation. So if you have 1 or 2 TBs there will still be a delay in response with larger volume. 2 Helps mask the response issue and completely fixes all the idle/vacuum volume issues.

Compromise either way IMO. I went with A/W because they are stupid simple to install and reliable. Used a bosch pump from Lightning/Cobra, some radiator hose and hard lines, IC, and heat exchanger. Basically did it the way Ford does it OEM. Works for them and works for me.
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:37 PM   #23
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Ya, the air-water cooler keeps the throttled volume down, but these days I my opinion its not a cost effective option + the added complication seems unattractive. This is due to the option of adequate ebay A-A's and the growing number of DTB setups which allow better than stock SC throttle response. I personally saw a DTB setup the other day (rather simple implementation) and the throttle response was unbelieveable. I have a stock MP62 (lowest throttle volume) and the DTB setup made me envious.
I don't know that I can agree about the cost/complication. I am purchasing my intercooler from Spearco (the only part I'm still waiting on), the coolant tank, pump, fittings, hose, and heat exchanger I bought on Ebay. My total cost is under $600. I figure it will take about an hour to get it installed. My IC will be inline with the crossover pipe, so I need two 90* elbows and 4 pieces of silicone hose. I've spent about 2 hours installing my heat exchanger and running the coolant lines, installing the tank and pump and wiring the pump. All in all pretty simple.
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:42 PM   #24
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I ran a 13.5x4x3.5 long flow IC. It was a generic universal unit with 2.5" in/out and 1/2 NPT bungs. Sat right in front of motor, just like crossover tube on typical hotside kit.

I don't have picture right now to post, but I can get one later.
Is that one of the IC's on Ebay? I have been eyeballing those, price is right. You seem to be happy with it, I assume you think it's doing an adequate job? How much boost are you running?
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:47 PM   #25
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I don't know that I can agree about the cost/complication. I am purchasing my intercooler from Spearco (the only part I'm still waiting on), the coolant tank, pump, fittings, hose, and heat exchanger I bought on Ebay. My total cost is under $600. I figure it will take about an hour to get it installed. My IC will be inline with the crossover pipe, so I need two 90* elbows and 4 pieces of silicone hose. I've spent about 2 hours installing my heat exchanger and running the coolant lines, installing the tank and pump and wiring the pump. All in all pretty simple.
Sounds like same routing as me. Super simple, easy, and cheap. Easy to remove to work on other parts also with all the clamps within easy reach.

You could do an a-a setup cheaper with ebay ic if you fabbed your own ic pipes. I will give him that, but the a-a kits are >2x what I have into my setup.

If I wasn't running a PD S/C I would run an a-a setup and it would be simpler.
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:50 PM   #26
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Sounds like same routing as me. Super simple, easy, and cheap. Easy to remove to work on other parts also with all the clamps within easy reach.

You could do an a-a setup cheaper with ebay ic if you fabbed your own ic pipes. I will give him that, but the a-a kits are >2x what I have into my setup.

If I wasn't running a PD S/C I would run an a-a setup and it would be simpler.
I totally agree, if I was running a turbo I would definately use A/A.
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:50 PM   #27
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Is that one of the IC's on Ebay? I have been eyeballing those, price is right. You seem to be happy with it, I assume you think it's doing an adequate job? How much boost are you running?
Frozenboost IC

9psi I think is what the pulley setup is. Runs cool all the time. By my thermo calculations it still has alot of headroom.
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:04 PM   #28
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If you are completing the setup for under $600 than by all means go the water-air route because it has its benefits as stated. I was thinking it was going to be in the neigbourhood of $1000 based on the old Jackson Racing unit. That's my may problem with intercooler kits for the MP62 (TDR same price). The DIY approach is always more beneficial (plus you get to tinker) and I hope that you report the results (IAT's is possible) so that there is more data (more current data) to differentiate the two options.
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:21 PM   #29
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It seems I would be going A/W for a totally different reason than any of you guys... large reservoir tank, full of ice... ya know, a drag race setup that will still function on the street without the ice. 400whp with ice in the tank would be neat.

Then again I could just keep my A/A and add meth injection and it'd probably work out the same.
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:38 PM   #30
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It seems I would be going A/W for a totally different reason than any of you guys... large reservoir tank, full of ice... ya know, a drag race setup that will still function on the street without the ice. 400whp with ice in the tank would be neat.

Then again I could just keep my A/A and add meth injection and it'd probably work out the same.
Do both. I do. I have one nozzle pre s/c and one in the dummy TB.
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:42 PM   #31
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[QUOTE=Staffah;572830]If you are completing the setup for under $600 than by all means go the water-air route because it has its benefits as stated. I was thinking it was going to be in the neigbourhood of $1000 based on the old Jackson Racing unit. That's my may problem with intercooler kits for the MP62 (TDR same price). The DIY approach is always more beneficial (plus you get to tinker) and I hope that you report the results (IAT's is possible) so that there is more data (more current data) to differentiate the two options.[/QUOTE

Thanks to Ebay, the DIY option is very doable for a reasonable cost. I will post up data when I have some. It will be awhile yet, I'm still waiting on the IC, a new nose pulley and a few little odds and ends, I was hoping to be done by the end of May, we'll see.
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:31 PM   #32
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Sounds good jimj64. I am pretty much in the same boat right now waiting on my A-A IC from Cxracing. I am going the over-the-top route and hopefully I will remember to document the process. It would be good to give us supercharger guys results for more than DIY option.
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:52 PM   #33
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i missed the part where this thread was in the SC section

...whoops
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Old 05-15-2010, 05:05 PM   #34
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Even for turbo, though, I think water-air can make sense. A lot of turbo guys are down on it, and that's too bad. A properly designed water-air has a lot going for it on a turbo Miata. It just seems that not many have been well thought out / implemented.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:16 AM   #35
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Just thought I'd add pictures of my BSP A/W intercooler. Might help out the guys trying to put together a similar setup.

It is a spearco A/W intercooler. Jabsco Cyclone pump circulating water through a generic oil cooler, with the radiator overflow tank as the reservoir.

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It is a spearco A/W intercooler.
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Tight fit, choose your fans wisely.
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I recently redid the steel brackets, which were heavy and nasty with some rust. Fabbed some new ones up using aluminum.
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Old 08-19-2010, 06:01 AM   #36
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I have exactly that setup lying in my garage.

The set contains.
1. spearco A/W intercooler
2. New smaller fan
3. Radiator made by Long Canada
4. Coolant pump
5. Watertank
6. Mounting material

Would sell under 600 $ including shipping from germany.
Just PM me if your interested.

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Old 08-28-2010, 04:35 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnwright View Post
Either way you are adding complication and cost.

The fact remains tho that the MP62 only puts out a fixed volume per rotation. So if you have 1 or 2 TBs there will still be a delay in response with larger volume. 2 Helps mask the response issue and completely fixes all the idle/vacuum volume issues.

Compromise either way IMO. I went with A/W because they are stupid simple to install and reliable. Used a bosch pump from Lightning/Cobra, some radiator hose and hard lines, IC, and heat exchanger. Basically did it the way Ford does it OEM. Works for them and works for me.
I leaning on the same solution.

I've got a JR SC since 2006, running great but can't squeeze more power without IC first.

I'm considering the Jackson Racing Air/Water Inter-cooler system...


Or a Spearco based DIY kit

Or these from chargecooler (not bad...)

Last edited by lo/rez; 08-28-2010 at 06:49 AM.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:29 PM   #38
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I have the jackson racing water to air intercooler on the M45, and it's not too great. the air routing is shorter than track dog racing intercooler, but the max hp i can get is alot less than what they can do with the front mount... I wonder if the middle pipe is more restrictive
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:30 PM   #39
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beside, i think jackson stopped making thsoe intercooler.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:24 PM   #40
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beside, i think jackson stopped making thsoe intercooler.
Making them for sure, but Moss still got some in stock (at least in UK)

After few days of research and feedback from users:
the heat exchanger in that kit is too small, one needs to replace it with a bigger one anyway.

So, if I'll go with W/A -and I say 'if' - I'll DIY assembling:
1. A PWR Chargecooler (they are the best in terms of built and flow (both water and air). Either the 290mm or the 350mm, 100mm diam. will fit.
2. A decent size heat exchanger (there are tons around, so easy to find and cheap)
3. A good pump though, and I'll fit it with a failure warning circuit.
4. Some silicon elbows and good pipes.

Plan B: Il go A/A with a DTB
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