1.6 to 1.8 clutch and flywheel upgrade - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 04-29-2014, 08:42 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Boris View Post
Something is bugging me here,.... why is a 1.6 to 1.8 clutch an "upgrade" ?

More mass = more gooder ?!?

:end sarcasm:
you say end sarcasm, but you sound completely serious...
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:54 AM   #22
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yet the question remains
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:33 AM   #23
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The larger 1.8 clutch can hold more torque, all else being equal. But the 949 1.6L clutch can take more torque than the transmission so that's a moot point. OP is just an idiot.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:08 AM   #24
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yet the question remains
If you can't understand why a larger clutch is better, especially in an application when we are throwing much more torque at our drivetrain, then you really don't deserve to be on this site...

But like Failure said: All things being equal, the larger the diameter clutch, the larger the surface area, and the greater the holding capacity. That means, without any additional pedal effort, you can hold more torque just from the diameter size alone.

The last thing you want is to hit 15psi, only to start slipping your clutch at 4K--the automotive equivalent of limp-dick syndrome. The 1.6L clutch is undersized; mazda increased it from 200mm to 225mm with the addition of only 20hp and 200lbs of weight. If you want to increase the holding capacity of a 1.6L sized clutch to even hold 250rwhp, you must go with aggressive disc material, pucked discs, and/or very very heavy pressure plates. Or you can bump the size of the disc, and have plenty of options for clutches with minimal pedal effort that hold well over 300rwhp and feel very similar to a stock clutch.
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Old 04-30-2014, 03:13 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
If you can't understand why a larger clutch is better, especially in an application when we are throwing much more torque at our drivetrain, then you really don't deserve to be on this site...

But like Failure said: All things being equal, the larger the diameter clutch, the larger the surface area, and the greater the holding capacity. That means, without any additional pedal effort, you can hold more torque just from the diameter size alone.

The last thing you want is to hit 15psi, only to start slipping your clutch at 4K--the automotive equivalent of limp-dick syndrome. The 1.6L clutch is undersized; mazda increased it from 200mm to 225mm with the addition of only 20hp and 200lbs of weight. If you want to increase the holding capacity of a 1.6L sized clutch to even hold 250rwhp, you must go with aggressive disc material, pucked discs, and/or very very heavy pressure plates. Or you can bump the size of the disc, and have plenty of options for clutches with minimal pedal effort that hold well over 300rwhp and feel very similar to a stock clutch.
I still don't get it. A 1.6l ACT XT will hold over 350 ft-lbs. Clutch flywheel and Disk are all significantly lighter with a smaller MOI if that is what your Idea of performance is about. I feel so little difference in drivability between a 1.6l clutch and a 1.8l clutch that are both designed for 350 ft-lbs I donít even buy that as an argument. The smaller lighter clutch makes the car measurably faster.
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Old 04-30-2014, 03:33 PM   #26
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The 1.6L ACT XT PP is as heavy as your mom and not fun to daily; especially for the member's here that have sore knees.
Fun fact: One of the worst clutches I've ever driven on was the 1.6L ACT XT SS.
And since you're suggesting the 1.6L XT holds over 350tq (hint: it doesn't*), then it has a pucked disc and it's even more abominable and the idea that you'd ever suggest to another human being suggests to me how much you hate other people's well-being.
Fun fact: One of the other worst clutches I've ever driven on was: any pucked clutch.
The 1.8L HD SS, light pressure plate, street disc, is rated at 245tq; you need a lot of boost to start slipping one of those and it drives just like a stock clutch without any extra effort.
Fun fact: One of the better clutches I've driven on, and own, is the 1.8L ACT HD.
More boost makes the car measurably faster as well.




* the highest rated ACT 1.6L kit is rated at 270tq.

Last edited by Braineack; 04-30-2014 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:01 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
If you can't understand why a larger clutch is better, especially in an application when we are throwing much more torque at our drivetrain, then you really don't deserve to be on this site...

But like Failure said: All things being equal, the larger the diameter clutch, the larger the surface area, and the greater the holding capacity. That means, without any additional pedal effort, you can hold more torque just from the diameter size alone.

The last thing you want is to hit 15psi, only to start slipping your clutch at 4K--the automotive equivalent of limp-dick syndrome. The 1.6L clutch is undersized; mazda increased it from 200mm to 225mm with the addition of only 20hp and 200lbs of weight. If you want to increase the holding capacity of a 1.6L sized clutch to even hold 250rwhp, you must go with aggressive disc material, pucked discs, and/or very very heavy pressure plates. Or you can bump the size of the disc, and have plenty of options for clutches with minimal pedal effort that hold well over 300rwhp and feel very similar to a stock clutch.
Hey, Captain Obvious. Don't trip over your cape. Many a superhero was lost that way.
Yeah, I got the SuperMiata 1.6 clutch for my 1.8 and am more than happy with it.

Oh snap.
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:42 AM   #28
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Don't 6MTs tend to grenade around 250 ft-lbs? On a scale of one to replacing a blown tranny every other month, I imagine a heavy clutch pedal would score fairly low.
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:14 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Boris View Post
Hey, Captain Obvious. Don't trip over your cape. Many a superhero was lost that way.
Yeah, I got the SuperMiata 1.6 clutch for my 1.8 and am more than happy with it.

Oh snap.

Whoops, it appears you tripped on my ego on the way out...
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:19 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
The 1.6L ACT XT PP is as heavy as your mom and not fun to daily; especially for the member's here that have sore knees.
Fun fact: One of the worst clutches I've ever driven on was the 1.6L ACT XT SS.
And since you're suggesting the 1.6L XT holds over 350tq (hint: it doesn't*), then it has a pucked disc and it's even more abominable and the idea that you'd ever suggest to another human being suggests to me how much you hate other people's well-being.
Fun fact: One of the other worst clutches I've ever driven on was: any pucked clutch.
The 1.8L HD SS, light pressure plate, street disc, is rated at 245tq; you need a lot of boost to start slipping one of those and it drives just like a stock clutch without any extra effort.
Fun fact: One of the better clutches I've driven on, and own, is the 1.8L ACT HD.
More boost makes the car measurably faster as well.




* the highest rated ACT 1.6L kit is rated at 270tq.
Fun Fact: I have been driving a 1.6l ZM1-XTR4 for many years now with over 300 ft-lbs rear wheel torque. It is not hard to drive and lasts.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:53 AM   #31
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Do you drive it on the street and are you an incredible ***** like I am
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:47 PM   #32
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Do you drive it on the street and are you an incredible ***** like I am
Drove the car to work today. Very little difference in feel between the 1.6l XTG4 and a the 1.8L HD SS that I had in prior I also don't notice much differance between 4 and 6 puck. The rigid hub Im using makes some rattly buzzy noises but it doesn't blow the sprung center apart like both the 1.6l and 1.8l sprung centers did for me.

The thing that makes the car most annoying to daily drive isnt the clutch. Far and away it is the AWR motor mounts!

FWIW the Spec clutch I tried was freekin horible. It had a soft pedal but engagement that could be adjusted further off the floor but it was on/off and Juddery as hell. nearly impossible to smoothly launch and it wouldn't hold my torque even though it was rated higher than the ACT.

Bob
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:28 AM   #33
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Spec clutches are a joke.

I personally just dont like heavy pressure plates and pucked discs and a especially a combination of both.

I had pretty much the same clutch you have now, and I really hated it. It was fatiguing and coupled with the lack of power steering made daily duty very straining and annoying. The puck disc required that caution/effort/focus be put on the launching technique at each stop light, else it drive through intersections like you're trying for 8 seconds on a wild bull.

I've had 4-5 different clutch kits on my car, and driven numerous setups and my favorite are ones like the FM2 that has just a touch more pedal effort than stock but that's still transparent to the fact that it can hold all the power your throw at it.

If the car was a track car, I wouldn't care like at all.

And yes, solid mounts are crazy. how many random screws/nuts/bolts do you find in your car on a weekly basis?
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:33 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Spec clutches are a joke.

I personally just dont like heavy pressure plates and pucked discs and a especially a combination of both.

I had pretty much the same clutch you have now, and I really hated it. It was fatiguing and coupled with the lack of power steering made daily duty very straining and annoying. The puck disc required that caution/effort/focus be put on the launching technique at each stop light, else it drive through intersections like you're trying for 8 seconds on a wild bull.

I've had 4-5 different clutch kits on my car, and driven numerous setups and my favorite are ones like the FM2 that has just a touch more pedal effort than stock but that's still transparent to the fact that it can hold all the power your throw at it.

If the car was a track car, I wouldn't care like at all.

And yes, solid mounts are crazy. how many random screws/nuts/bolts do you find in your car on a weekly basis?
I find all sorts of stuff coming loose after installing AWR motor mounts. The last things that came loos were the nuts that hold the side window rails in the doors. It makes shifting so good when driven in anger though.

Drove the car to the grocery store yesterday with 275 Hoosiers mounted on 15X11 wheels. The grip levels aren’t too compatible with hauling groceries I found.
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Old 11-09-2014, 02:23 AM   #35
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Hi!

Sorry for reviving the thread...

I have a NA 1993 1.6 and coming soon add this upgrade 1.6 to 1.8 clutch and flywheel - (and JC m45,WI,Megasquirt, etc, etc...)

I would like to have your opinion about two options :

1)

Exedy Clutch Kit Fidanza Flywheel 90 05 Mazda Miata 1 6L 1 8L mazdaspeed Turbo | eBay

500$

2)

Exedy XTR Stage 2 Clutch Kit 94 05 Mazda MX 5 Miata 1 8L 04 05 mazdaspeed Turbo | eBay

FX 4140 Chromoly Flywheel 94 05 Mazda Miata MX 5 1 8L 2004 05 mazdaspeed Turbo | eBay

Total
330$



Greetings from Venezuela
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Old 11-09-2014, 09:33 AM   #36
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no.

ACT HD, Flyin Miata, or 949 Clutches only.

although your JRSC wont have enough power to really push the limits of even a stock clutch. The Exedy Stage 1 is fine. The Stage 2 is absolutely retarded for a street car.
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Old 11-09-2014, 11:25 AM   #37
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Quote:
no.

ACT HD, Flyin Miata, or 949 Clutches only.

although your JRSC wont have enough power to really push the limits of even a stock clutch. The Exedy Stage 1 is fine. The Stage 2 is absolutely retarded for a street car.
OK!

My option could be (1.6 to 1.8) :

1)
Exedy Clutch Pro Kit 1994 2005 Mazda Miata MX 5 1 8L mazdaspeed Turbo | eBay

and

1.1)
94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 Mazda MX 5 Miata 1 8L Manual Standard Flywheel BP | eBay

2)

Or Stock stage 1 Exedy 1.6 (200mm) is enough for my Little JRSC ?

- I hope 140-150 hp max on my setup...
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Old 11-09-2014, 11:43 AM   #38
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I've seen the Exedy Stage 1 hold over 220tq fine.

I wouldn't get the Pro-kit one you linked, but the Stage 1.
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Old 11-09-2014, 12:28 PM   #39
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Excellent

Thank you Braineack!
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Old 11-09-2014, 02:13 PM   #40
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I've seen the Exedy Stage 1 hold over 220tq fine.

I wouldn't get the Pro-kit one you linked, but the Stage 1.
RWtq, or FWtq?
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