949 BGK: Too much for the street? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-04-2012, 03:47 PM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lodi, CA
Posts: 15
Total Cats: 1
Default 949 BGK: Too much for the street?

The car: Stock suspension '91. 205/50/15 RE-11's on 15x7.5. Stockish 1.6 (head had a little work by Rebello), currently NA but will eventually be unnaturally (thanks California!). FM Happymeal, 4.1 torsen, blah blah blah

I'm looking into getting the 949 Big Grip Kit but am worried it's going to be too much spring (700/400) for a spirited, fair-weather daily driver/ weekend backroads car. I have zero intentions of tracking nor autocrossing the car.

Does anyone have any input as far as these spring rates on bumpy city roads? Or better yet, single lane back roads that haven't been paved since 1950. And if you don't recommend them, what springs should I purchase?

And would the spherical upper mounts be a worthwhile investment? It's the noise of NVH I cannot stand. The other two I consider a free back massage.


I apologize beforehand for any misspellings or grammar or plain stupidity. I'm leaving for basic training for the Air Force in a week so my mind is slightly elsewhere. Shoot, I don't even know if I'm going to keep this car (but the information will be useful as I have zero intention of being miataless wherever I end up).

Thanks,
Stephen
sterVin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 03:55 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

I dont mind my 650/400 (would have gotten 700 but nationally back ordered when I needed them) on the street. Its much better than the factory r-package suspension with fcm bumpstops was. And I drive in the city in the north east. Do you even have pot holes in california, much less ones that can make your car disappear?

I wish I got the upper mounts, I hate how the plastic spring cups match up to the NB mounts and pretty much let everything shift around at full droop.

I can comment to how that big rear bar effects handling. I run the same front bar as that kit with no rear bar.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 05:23 PM   #3
Newb
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 30
Total Cats: 0
Default

I have 700/400, its comfy for the most part. I wouldnt daily on it though, the big bumps are a little too firm. Atleast for me.

But I have pretty much the whole setup. Xida CS, 949 sway bar set, bushings. It handles damn well.
xjdesertfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 06:29 PM   #4
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3
Total Cats: 0
Default

i run 700/350 on my street only daily (previous owner used to track it). it is a bit too harsh for crusing around the streets especially with socals crappy roads but for decent canyon roads it is absolutely amazing. im willing to make the sacrifice

i personally think the BGK is pretty appealing for an aggressive street car
sugy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 07:12 PM   #5
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

For street-only applications, you should definitely go with much lower rates.
High rates actually lose grip on large back road bumps.
Even 400f/300r is a bit on the high side.
Try and find a recently done FCM coilover setup with mild rates, circa 350f/250r.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 01:09 AM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: finger lakes NY
Posts: 444
Total Cats: 17
Default

How much tire are you planning to run? Match the springs to the grip.
DaveC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 01:15 AM   #7
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
For street-only applications, you should definitely go with much lower rates.
High rates actually lose grip on large back road bumps.
Even 400f/300r is a bit on the high side.
Try and find a recently done FCM coilover setup with mild rates, circa 350f/250r.
Respectfully...you have clearly never driven or ridden in a Xida car. I have 700/400 on my track car (wish I went higher) and 600/400 on my daily. I chose those rates for my daily after driving my track car for a couple years, and put them in a car that sees 30-40k miles per year on the shittiest of Houston roads.

High rates "lose grip" when there is too much compression damping, this is not the case on the Xidas.

NB uppers are good, not sure if spherical are worth the cash on a street car.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 01:17 AM   #8
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xjdesertfox View Post
I have 700/400, its comfy for the most part. I wouldnt daily on it though, the big bumps are a little too firm. Atleast for me.
You're forgotten what it's like to crash bump-stops. If it's too rough, twist the *****. I've lived all over the country and there is a certain level of "badness"which cannot be exceeded, and then there's gravel roads. Houston downtown and Heights neighborhoods have some of the worst roads in the country. The nasty craters sound just as bad in the Cherokee as they do my Miata.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 01:34 AM   #9
Newb
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 30
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
You're forgotten what it's like to crash bump-stops. If it's too rough, twist the *****. I've lived all over the country and there is a certain level of "badness"which cannot be exceeded, and then there's gravel roads. Houston downtown and Heights neighborhoods have some of the worst roads in the country. The nasty craters sound just as bad in the Cherokee as they do my Miata.
Lol, maybe im just getting spoiled. My car used to ride horribly on lowering springs + billies. the xidas do ride incredible for the rates im on.
xjdesertfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 09:56 AM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

I have 550/350 springs, and I like it a lot. From what I understand, going as high as 700/400 will only really help you out more if you are going to be running 225-wide r-compounds or stickier tires, so for a DD they just don't make that much sense.

If/when I want to stop DDing it and turn it into a full time track car or weekend cruiser, the new springs would be cheap.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 10:14 AM   #11
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,174
Total Cats: 2,575
Default

LOL

Guys I want a street suspension
-"700LB XIDA BRO"

Guys I drive the car daily on terrible roads
-"700LB XIDA BRO"

Guys I want a comfortable ride that doesn't make every tiny little bump felt
-"700LB XIDA BRO"

Guys I want a budget suspension
-"$2000 XIDA BRO"

Makes me laugh. I'm sorry, if you think a 700lb race coilover is cool for a daily driver on terrible roads, you need to get the **** back into the RACE section and stay there.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 10:47 AM   #12
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Makes me laugh. I'm sorry, if you think a 700lb race coilover is cool for a daily driver on terrible roads, you need to get the **** back into the RACE section and stay there.
Have you ever driven on them? They defy conventional logic.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 03:34 AM   #13
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Rafael, CA
Posts: 1,124
Total Cats: 41
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Have you ever driven on them? They defy conventional logic.
Anyone who has driven on a high end shock would understand. When I first tried Ohlins Motorsports on my Audi I was amazed at the ride quality even though they were spring almost twice what was normally considered streetable.

The secret is in the valving. XIDA's with dual springs is one of those rare situations where you gain on both ends.
k24madness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 02:18 PM   #14
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lodi, CA
Posts: 15
Total Cats: 1
Default

DaveC- 205/50/15 RE-11's for now. Don't plan on stickier tires anytime soon. I see Emilio recommends 450/300 for that sized tire.

18psi- Are you happy with the FM Illumina kit? I have been eyeing their 2.5 as well. Seems like a very quality setup (with equal rave reviews) for the cash.
sterVin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 02:36 PM   #15
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,862
Total Cats: 484
Default

Mentioning the FM 2.5 kit and the 949 BGK in the same thread even is just ridiculous. They are completely different classes of suspension components in every aspect.

There are a lot of guys who have positively reviewed the Illuminas, yes - and every one of them has zero experience with anything better, so they have no reference.

People rave about the FM 2.5 kit when they upgrade from worn out and blown stock suspension. People rave about XIDAS when they upgrade from other high-end coilovers.
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 11:19 PM   #16
Junior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 277
Total Cats: 24
Default

What does everyone think about the poly control arm bushings? I've heard complaints about poly bushings binding and squeaking.

If you were going to get Xidas, would you do the control arm bushings with them or not? Car is street driven to work once a week or so, will go to a HPDE once every month or two.
RussellT94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 11:21 PM   #17
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

I would only do the bushing on a car like that if they were shot, and I would do new stiffer rubber ones., not poly.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 11:31 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,009
Total Cats: 583
Default

And, they're likely not shot. I just installed FCM on my 200K mile car and the rubber bushings were fine. I was surprised.

With poly, you need to commit to maintaining otherwise they'll bind and you're worse off. 949 has great pictures of where to install grease fittings for periodic servicing.
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 09:42 AM   #19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: finger lakes NY
Posts: 444
Total Cats: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sterVin View Post
DaveC- 205/50/15 RE-11's for now. Don't plan on stickier tires anytime soon. I see Emilio recommends 450/300 for that sized tire.
Well there you go. If you have Emilio's advice then you really don't need anyone else's. Seriously, if you want to create an awesome driving experience on the road (and you're not already spoiled by super sticky racing tires) then those tires and those springs should be amazing.

I've been running Prothane poly bushings for two seasons and would not go back to rubber on this car. It's a package deal, obviously. The precision location comes with a little increase in harshness, but the lower friction is a HUGE plus. Hard to explain, but it really makes the car more fun to drive... for me, other people have different opinions.

I installed them in the spring of 2011 using generous quantities of ES lube (available from 949.) After 20k miles I still have no squeaks, but they're probably coming along with increased friction. I'll see what they look like when/if I have to pull the suspension apart. I might add zerks or I might just repack with ES lube. I'm sure the ES stuff lasts longer; anything from a grease gun will probably need to be 'refreshed' regularly. I wouldn't bother putting in ordinary grease without zerks.
DaveC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 10:07 AM   #20
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

I got 550/350 springs on mine. Love it for daily driving. Right now I have shitty 195 all seasons on it, but I'm not looking for the fastest times through the snow right now. I haven't gotten it on a track yet, so I can't say what they will do first-hand. Though I can say the car now takes corners fast enough that it is scary to try to push the limits on the street.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
Prepping my '95 for track asmasm Build Threads 82 05-26-2016 05:37 PM
Hey everyone another n00b here Big_gumby Meet and Greet 80 10-05-2015 05:06 PM
Re-Spring Tein FLEX or replace? Mazdaspeeder Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 21 10-03-2015 07:45 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:40 PM.