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Old 11-20-2013, 04:41 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by adamiata View Post
An honest question:

Why would someone want these (with adjustable ride height and fixed damping), versus something like FM springs with adjustable Tokicos and fixed perches, or Ground Controls and Bilsteins?

I may be looking to replace my 10 year old FM/AGX setup next summer.
This kit appears to come complete as a bolt-in affair, including bump stops and top hats, that are all designed from the ground up to be an integrated setup. You get dampers, springs, and bump stops all designed to work together and engineered by people that (A) certainly seem to know about suspension setups and (B) certainly seem to know about suspension setups on Miatas.

How often do you adjust the damping on your AGX setup? Do you have any idea what each click of the **** does to the damping? You'd probably be surpised.

I would MUCH rather have non-adjustable dampers with quality curves/response versus one with mediocre curves/response that you can make... different... by turning a ****. I say "different," because it might not be "better."

I would argue that most people grossly overestimate the value of adjustment ***** on low-end (sub-$2k) setups.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:11 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
Googled "techna"

Seeing the image results, I think you picked the perfect name for Miataturbo.

It's not a pony but nobody's perfect
It's tecna, actually. Came up with the name after racking my brain over it for many months.

Twin Tube
Economy
Comfort
Non Adjustable

Liked the way it sounded but still wasn't sure. Did google search, clicked images tab. Win.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:28 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
This kit appears to come complete as a bolt-in affair, including bump stops and top hats, that are all designed from the ground up to be an integrated setup. You get dampers, springs, and bump stops all designed to work together and engineered by people that (A) certainly seem to know about suspension setups and (B) certainly seem to know about suspension setups on Miatas.

How often do you adjust the damping on your AGX setup? Do you have any idea what each click of the **** does to the damping? You'd probably be surpised.

I would MUCH rather have non-adjustable dampers with quality curves/response versus one with mediocre curves/response that you can make... different... by turning a ****. I say "different," because it might not be "better."

I would argue that most people grossly overestimate the value of adjustment ***** on low-end (sub-$2k) setups.
I guess I assumed that with adjustable damping one of the settings would be a good match for the springs, but I'm learning that it's more complicated than that. I can imagine adjusting the damping more often than the ride height, for street versus autocross. In any case, I just bought what was cheap from FM 10 years ago because I didn't really know much about suspension. I still don't know a lot but I'm trying to educate myself.

With the AGX's I adjusted the **** (whatever that's really doing) until the suspension didn't oscillate over bumps anymore. That's how I settled on my street settings. For autocross I tended to run them stiffer, with the back a couple clicks softer than the front based on run times and how the car felt.

The car was off the road for a few years and coming back to it I realize how shitty the ride is and how moderate mid-corner bumps upset it. I'm sure a lot of this is due to a lack of suspension travel in the back, which is why this 949 setup is interesting.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by adamiata View Post
I guess I assumed that with adjustable damping one of the settings would be a good match for the springs, but I'm learning that it's more complicated than that. I can imagine adjusting the damping more often than the ride height, for street versus autocross. In any case, I just bought what was cheap from FM 10 years ago because I didn't really know much about suspension. I still don't know a lot but I'm trying to educate myself.
The data is a little outdated and the author a polarizing figure, but the following is a reasonable coverage of cheap adjustable shocks:

Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - Buying Shocks

I would much rather have good dampers that I don't futz with and height-adjustability to corner-weight the car vs a static ride height via springs designed for stock dampers and questionable dampers designed for stock springs that I can "adjust."

What I ended up with was a compromised spring rate, damper, and bumpstop combination that were allegedly designed to run together. I would have a lot more faith that the SuperMiata Tecna combo would actually accomplish that mission in a Miata-specific application.

What I will probably end up doing is getting Xidas, because I like to party.
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Old 11-20-2013, 06:19 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
I would argue that most people grossly overestimate the value of adjustment ***** on low-end (sub-$2k) setups.
This. I had $1100 Konis on my car before the XIDAs. I adjusted the shocks once in three years.
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Old 11-20-2013, 06:51 PM   #26
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Thank you Emilio, this is exactly what I'm in the market for. I've been eyeing others that will soon be your competitors in this market segment, but felt some hesitation regarding ride quality/respectable performance. I've got much more confidence in a similar product you've personally developed. In for future details and data.

Can't wait until spring (pun intended)!
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:24 PM   #27
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These sound great! I definitely know what to recommend to ppl when they ask me what suspension they should get for their miata(after refusing the Xida's price-tag).

Question... why twin-tube over monotube? Was it a manufacturing price-point on the monos that threw it out of budget?
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:34 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
These sound great! I definitely know what to recommend to ppl when they ask me what suspension they should get for their miata(after refusing the Xida's price-tag).

Question... why twin-tube over monotube? Was it a manufacturing price-point on the monos that threw it out of budget?
Cost primarily. When production engineered to a lower price point, it's also easier to get twin tube valving to behave well over low amplitude, high velocity inputs. To do that with a monotube requires more sophistication, more expensive materials and cost. This is one reason why so many low cost monotubes are OK on big hits but have only so-so ride quality of ripply pavement.

So going with a twin tube is the right tool for the job in our case.
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Old 11-20-2013, 09:23 PM   #29
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Totally selling my shitty coilovers to someone on clubroadster and buying these.
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:12 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Cost primarily. When production engineered to a lower price point, it's also easier to get twin tube valving to behave well over low amplitude, high velocity inputs. To do that with a monotube requires more sophistication, more expensive materials and cost. This is one reason why so many low cost monotubes are OK on big hits but have only so-so ride quality of ripply pavement.

So going with a twin tube is the right tool for the job in our case.
Which would be superior in your opinion for occasional track duty and DD'ing, Emilio? Tein Flex or these?
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:15 AM   #31
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You've got my attention. How will these ride down dirt roads? I live down a pretty long one and HATE the way my kyb's feel on it. Makes my car rattle apart.

Where I live the roads in town suck, but we still have smooth canyons. It sounds like these might just be perfect for me.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Ha!
Remind me the next time we get some people together around here, to take you for a ride....perhaps drive....to get some input on my suspension setup.
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Old 11-21-2013, 01:39 AM   #33
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Josh doesn't know **** about suspension mike :P interesting new option for simple coilovers curious to see how they stack up to bilstein a with sleeves
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:41 AM   #34
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How will these ride down dirt roads? I live down a pretty long one and HATE the way my kyb's feel on it. Makes my car rattle apart.
Other than taking an educated guess, why would he possibly know the answer to that question?

"How will these budget-oriented coilovers handle light duty off-roading in my Miata?"

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Old 11-21-2013, 08:07 AM   #35
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Oh how I wish I would have stuck to my original plan on upgrading suspension March of next year instead of buying Vmaxx's and swaybars a few weeks ago...
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:45 AM   #36
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Interesting, these sound exactly like the perfect setup for my dad's miata. But they're too rich for his blood, maybe I'll buy them for him for christmas next year or something. Or if I happened across a set earlier they could become my new go to recommendation for under $2000 shocks. God knows how many local people who've bought VMaxx because of me.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:20 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
Other than taking an educated guess, why would he possibly know the answer to that question?

"How will these budget-oriented coilovers handle light duty off-roading in my Miata?"

As a coilover he has designed himself from the ground up, he might have more than a guess. We can let the man answer for himself. He stated they are being designed for comfort and DD duties in mind. For me DD requires about a mile of dirt road driving each time I take out the car. While the road is dirt, it's nowhere near "light duty off-roading"

Assuming at a reasonable ride height they should ride decently down a dirt road at mild speeds isn't out of the question. In addition to ride quality, I'm curious on how they will hold up after daily dirt road driving as well.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:22 AM   #38
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Meh, he stated they are being designed for comfort and DD duties in mind. For me DD requires about a mile of dirt road driving each time I take out the car. While the road is dirt, it's nowhere near "light duty off-roading"

Assuming at a reasonable ride height they should ride decently down a dirt road at mild speeds isn't out of the question.
I'd hope they were good down a dirt road. I would rate the xidas well in dirt road duty. Now I would rate the RS3s as poor in dirt road duty for a tire.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:24 AM   #39
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Interesting, these sound exactly like the perfect setup for my dad's miata. But they're too rich for his blood, maybe I'll buy them for him for christmas next year or something.
How much cheaper does it get for a complete setup with dampers, springs, bumpstops, and upper mounts? That's an honest question.

I know I paid a bit less for my Tein Basics + NB mounts but that was in large part because I used to work in the industry and still get some pretty significant hookups from some shops. I don't think they'd be much (if any) cheaper at regular retail.

V-Maxx are in the same ballpark. Spring and damper setups like the FM Stage 1 suspension kit are as (or more expensive). I guess you have Racelands and the like, but I never cross-shopped those.

Or are you just saying your dad likely won't buy any suspension because of the cost?
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:28 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
How much cheaper does it get for a complete setup with dampers, springs, bumpstops, and upper mounts? That's an honest question. Or are you just saying your dad likely won't buy any suspension because of the cost?
Its the last one, he was considering just kyb gr2 shocks because he though that he had original showas, until I showed him the brand new looking top shock shaft, nut and mount on a 100k mile car that said the previous owner was moron and just brought it to the dealer to have shocks done before selling it, and it looks like they did every rubber bushing in the car while it was there.
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