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Old 11-27-2013, 02:29 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
.If a potential customer can take a stone stock miata, order your kit, and have the potential to be competitive on track.
Easy on the caffeine there chief. I appreciate the enthusiasm though.

What you, and a lot of other folks seem to miss, is the design goal for the tecna: Best possible ride quality on moderately lowered street Miatas. That's it. They are not race shocks.

I don't care if guys win Miata Challenge on them or not. What I do care about is drivers loving the ride quality on their daily commute. If you folks love the ride quality, we have succeeded in delivering on our promise. Many of us now have more than one Miata. One that mainly gets driven while wearing a helmet. The other while sipping a latte on the way to work. That daily gets more use as it's utility increases. Comfy stock seats with foamectomy, functioning cruise, A/C and power windows, nice sound system, few rattles, good gearing, quiet and a buttery ride that soaks up everything you throw at it but still handles well. Personally, I like a stock midpipe/muffler with an RB header. No drone but a pleasant muted growl when you stomp on it. That daily is what the tecna are designed for.

The tecna handle well on track, much better than stock but that is merely a happy by product of good bump travel, low hysteresis and well matched damping/spring rates. Not the primary design goal. Track focused coilovers should have adjustable damping in my opinion.

Last edited by emilio700; 11-27-2013 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:07 PM   #102
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I think your missing my point. You already have all of the hardware, software, development, manpower to offer the product suggested. I'm talking about selling your "street Tecna" just as described, and also selling a "HPDE Tecna" running the same body, helpers, hats. Only difference would be valving and a front spring change. To keep it from competing with the Xida you sell it at the same price at 1899 as the "HPDE KIT". IMO someone looking at the Xida is upgrading a current setup and would already have sways, brakes, etc. I think your underestimating how many people would pick the easy button on a HPDE kit.
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:20 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Many of us now have more than one Miata. One that mainly gets driven while wearing a helmet. The other while sipping a latte on the way to work. That daily gets more use as it's utility increases
2 months ago I would have laughed at this.
Now I can only think "How did it come to this..."




Techna's for the silver car or CNC head for the green car... hmmm
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:25 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
Emilio can I make a suggestion? The goal of these coilovers is an OTS "street" replacment coilover. Knowing who your working with on these I am of the understanding that you can spec different valving and spring rates. You could also offer the "All of it, Tecna HPDE starter kit"

Tecna coilovers 550/325, stage 1 brake kit with XP10/8 pre-bedded, SuperMiata sway kit for 1899.00 only option is rollbar for 2349.00. Recomended for 200 treadware or higher street tires. When the person moves up through the HPDE ranks and wants to run say TT with slicks they would just need to swap in some Xida's with higher rates and sell off there Tecna's. You could have the coilovers pre setup to the correct height/corner balance so all the dummy has to do is bolt them in and get alignment. The average Joe could swipe his credit card, items delivered 4 days later, spend Saturday in his garage with hand tools, and have a track ready car. These wouldn't compete with the Xida line because the only way you can get them is with the whole 1899.00 order, the rates/valving is too soft for a serious track day enthusiast/competitor on slicks, no dampening adjustment for rain/conditions.

Benefits

Extra $200 Profit on Track Tecna HPDE kit
One stop shop
Brand loyalty
Forum members can now answer any newb miata guy's track day questions with a link to 949racing.com's HPDE starter kit

I would also suggest detailed instructions for the buyer and alignment shop. I would also run this in Miata Challange and win street class. If a potential customer can take a stone stock miata, order your kit, and have the potential to be competitive on track you would have a win. Also a newb would not have the chance to screw anything up because you picked all the parts for him. The only thing close to this has users who failed to complete their "race" giving testimonials and has no track data to back up anything. This would seriously cut out the need for a miata newb to spend days reading posts and hearing suggestions from questionable sources. This is the definition of the easy button.


haha, ****** brilliant dude. Seriously, I think its a good idea.

Just recolor the HPDE tecna's to orange or something so people can't confuse them with the different valved street version.

I seriously spent a month reading about suspension, spring rates, sway bars, blah blah blah before I bought my current setup. I still made msitakes (NB Bilsteins for example are just not ideal for ride height). oh well, here is to helping others make the right decision.
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:27 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
I think your missing my point.
Nope. But thanks for the advice anyway.

If and when we do an entry level track/autocross focused coilover, it will be damping adjustable and monotube. Track suspension should have adjustable damping IMO.
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:36 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Nope. But thanks for the advice anyway.

If and when we do an entry level track/autocross focused coilover, it will be damping adjustable and monotube. Track suspension should have adjustable damping IMO.
As a beginner at the track I can promise you that I wouldn't touch the adjustable dampening because I don't have enough experience or knowledge to understand what I am doing. If I did I would be looking at Xidas.

Beginners like to set it and forget it.
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:21 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
As a beginner at the track I can promise you that I wouldn't touch the adjustable dampening because I don't have enough experience or knowledge to understand what I am doing. If I did I would be looking at Xidas.

Beginners like to set it and forget it.
Bingo
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:39 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
As a beginner at the track I can promise you that I wouldn't touch the adjustable dampening because I don't have enough experience or knowledge to understand what I am doing. If I did I would be looking at Xidas.

Beginners like to set it and forget it.
Be that as it may, track suspensions are more effective when they are adjustable so that's how we would do it. Whether a particular user frequently adjusts them is their choice.

Damping rates that work well on track are generally far stiffer than that with which the best street ride is achieved. I make 5-6 clicks change on my daily (the 95R) between street and track. Ride is too choppy on the street when set for the track. Conversely, the soft settings that are so nice on the street are too floaty for track use. Thus, adjustable damping.


Therefore, we will never offer a non adjustable twin tube tecna that is aimed at track use.
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Old 11-28-2013, 05:48 AM   #109
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Jake has a very good idea, but I differ on the details. An HPDE model of the damper is unnecessary because HPDE isn't racing.

A package of "HPDE prep" is something I would have bought for my second Miata immediately, which is an 01 I specifically bought for HPDE. Now, having already bought rotors, lines, fluid, clutch line, alignment bolts, etc etc from emilio I no longer would purchase a package. I also recently bought the FM Vmaxx Stage 2 package and I was not happy with the on-track handling or the ride on the way there (5 hour drive). So 0 for 2. If these Tecnas give a good ride, at least it would have gone 1 for 2!

HPDE is not racing and the majority of people drive their cars to and from the events. If there was a package to replace the old blown-out shocks, inadequate sway bars, and old brakes/fluid of a miata intended to be a HPDE/fun car, it would sell. A comfy ride on the way there would be icing on the cake.

All this being said, I am very interested in buying these for my street MSM, which is emilios intended application, so maybe I should stop talking now.

Last edited by Chilicharger665; 11-28-2013 at 08:39 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:13 AM   #110
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I think there are several distinct crowds of drivers. Daily driver, dual duty, track only
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:30 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
I think there are several distinct crowds of drivers. Daily driver, dual duty, track only
If I were honest, I'd be, by far, in the former category.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:20 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
Jake has a very good idea, but I differ on the details. An HPDE model of the damper is unnecessary because HPDE isn't racing.

A package of "HPDE prep" is something I would have bought for my second Miata immediately, which is an 01 I specifically bought for HPDE. Now, having already bought rotors, lines, fluid, clutch line, alignment bolts, etc etc from emilio I no longer would purchase a package. I also recently bought the FM Vmaxx Stage 2 package and I was not happy with the on-track handling or the ride on the way there (5 hour drive). So 0 for 2. If these Tecnas give a good ride, at least it would have gone 1 for 2!

HPDE is not racing and the majority of people drive their cars to and from the events. If there was a package to replace the old blown-out shocks, inadequate sway bars, and old brakes/fluid of a miata intended to be a HPDE/fun car, it would sell. A comfy ride on the way there would be icing on the cake.

All this being said, I am very interested in buying these for my street MSM, which is emilios intended application, so maybe I should stop talking now.
You bring up a really good point. When I was first flipping through this thread I'm like ****, these are super intriguing but I wish the rates were higher and more "track" oriented. After reading your post though, it hit me. Let's be honest, as much as I aspire to start tracking the car, I will be driving it to the track. 2 hours mind you. 450lb springs are by no means soft and will handle like a wet noodle. I have them on my car now and it would be perfect if they were actually dampened properly and had any sort of consistency with the dampening between hot and cold weather, which I'm hopeful the tecnas will. I think what I and many others may overlook is just because 949 is not putting a "track" label on it and does not mean it can't be used one one. It's pretty known that your not going to get a proper duel purpose coilover without investing money in an adjustable dampners that will make 750lb springs feel like riding on air. They could have just as easily made this coilover with 600/400 set up and dampened it accordingly but that is sacrificing the every day ride (if your not able to adjust the dampening) Us duel duty guys have to sacrifice somewhere if we can't come up with the 2k+ for xidias,ohlns, mcs etc... This seems promising for a pretty nice balance.
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Old 12-01-2013, 06:16 PM   #113
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For track use the Teins are a decent intermediate step down from Xidas.
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Old 12-04-2013, 03:28 PM   #114
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What would be the limit for upping the spring rate on these?
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Old 12-04-2013, 03:30 PM   #115
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What would be the limit for upping the spring rate on these?

There is no real "limit."

When setting up a car, you "spring it" first. Then run the best shocks you can, second.
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Old 12-04-2013, 03:31 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
There is no real "limit."

When setting up a car, you "spring it" first. Then run the best shocks you can, second.
And (re)valve the shocks correctly for the springs and your driving style 3rd.
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Old 12-04-2013, 03:36 PM   #117
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Presuming these shocks aren't meant to be revalved- what's the highest spring rate the stock valving can accept?

Hope that makes sense lol
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Old 12-04-2013, 04:19 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by etikoner View Post
Presuming these shocks aren't meant to be revalved- what's the highest spring rate the stock valving can accept?

Hope that makes sense lol
Dunno. We won't test with higher rates. The tecna are intended to be cushy so they'll have rates in the 400/275 range. They use common 2.25" springs so you can experiment as you like.
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:44 PM   #119
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I may be totally wrong, but if they are valved for 400/275 or so, putting stiffer springs on won't necessarily make them faster on the track.

And if you're gonna custom valve shocks for a spring rate, that's what Bilsteins are for.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:16 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etikoner View Post
Presuming these shocks aren't meant to be revalved- what's the highest spring rate the stock valving can accept?

Hope that makes sense lol
It's not the right question or a question that really matters. There's no "limit."

They're set up to handle 400/275. That's what they'll be great at.

Anything different will be a compromise. It may be faster, it may be slower.

There's not a magical number for shocks at which they're all like "OH HAIILLLLL NAW MAN I'M OUT!"
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